I was flying with an owner today in his mid '70's single Cessna. I did a bit of a double think as I fastened the seatbelt. This was the factory type which has a single shoulder strap which clips over a T pin to the tang of the lap belt. The problem was that (I was right seat) the shoulder strap passed from over my right shoulder to clip to the tang of the lap belt which originated at the floor on my left side.
The problem is that irrespective of the lap belt being fastened, I was held in by the shoulder strap to left side lap belt portion, and it is an over center T pin to couple. So were I to be hanging up side down in the aircraft, releasing the lap belt buckle would not set me free. And indeed, only removing my suspended weight from the remaining shoulder to lap belt would allow me to release it - it cannot be released under load.
This might be an "original" configuration, though I have not seen one in a long time. In any case, Cessna owners should seriously consider if this arrangement is acceptable to them - it certainly would not be to me. Perhaps some could have the lap belt changed left for right, but in this case that would not work, as the lap belt to tang was sewn, and much too short. I like four point harnesses, which completely release with the lap belt buckle only (Hooker Harness is one example). But at least an arrangement where one action releases you completely. If you examine your system, and find that the shoulder harness still restrains you with the lap belt released, at least place a seatbelt cutter within easy reach....
Seatbelts in Cessnas
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, North Shore
Re: Seatbelts in Cessnas
That sounds really odd. The tang (with the "T" pin) should be on the long part of the belt, the part that passes over your lap; the buckle should be attached to the floor. So if you pull the release lever both lap and shoulder strap fall away.
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
Re: Seatbelts in Cessnas
You're right, it should look like something this:
Is the buckle design such that buckle halves could have been mixed up when being re-webbed? If the person reinstalling didn’t know any better, they could easily just bolt them in as received and carry on, none the wiser.
Is the buckle design such that buckle halves could have been mixed up when being re-webbed? If the person reinstalling didn’t know any better, they could easily just bolt them in as received and carry on, none the wiser.
Re: Seatbelts in Cessnas
Wow! Sounds like a very old belt. I thought all of them would have been caught in the 10 year seatbelt replacement requirement. Or is that only for commercial operators?
Not sure if this is the same self but it reminded me about this fatal accident.
http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-repor ... 109.asp#a3
1.18. ....
The aircraft was fitted with Cessna model S2070H-16 front lap belt and shoulder harness assemblies. Although not considered a factor in the occurrence, two design discrepancies were identified that could have impeded rapid release of the harness assembly and hamper occupant escape from the aircraft. On this belt assembly it is possible to mistake the latch handle frame for the latch handle itself, and for occupants to insert their fingers under the frame and pull on the frame rather than the latch handle when attempting to release the buckle. This could confuse occupants in an emergency and delay the release of the buckle.
In addition, the lap belt length adjustment is on the latch side of the buckle and the short, fixed strap is on the tongue side of the buckle. The shoulder strap engages in a slot in the tongue and the short, fixed lap strap holds the shoulder strap in the diagonal position across the front of the occupant. Because the belt is mounted with the tongue of the latch on the opposite side of the occupant relative to the shoulder strap, releasing the lap belt loosens but does not release the shoulder strap. The occupant must then either disengage the shoulder strap separately from the lap belt or crawl out from under the shoulder strap to get out of the seat.
The design of the lap belt and shoulder harness assemblies was changed in 1975 with the introduction of the S2275 style assembly. On the new assembly the latch tongue and the shoulder strap are connected and oriented on the same side of the occupant, and releasing the latch releases the lap belt and the shoulder strap in one motion. As well the latch part of the buckle is attached to the lap belt in a manner that precludes occupants from placing their fingers under the latch handle when releasing the buckle. Between 21 July 2000 and 7 December 2000, the operator removed the old S2070H-16 style seat belt and shoulder harness assemblies from the other three Cessna 177B Cardinals in the fleet and installed the S2275 harness assemblies.
Not sure if this is the same self but it reminded me about this fatal accident.
http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-repor ... 109.asp#a3
1.18. ....
The aircraft was fitted with Cessna model S2070H-16 front lap belt and shoulder harness assemblies. Although not considered a factor in the occurrence, two design discrepancies were identified that could have impeded rapid release of the harness assembly and hamper occupant escape from the aircraft. On this belt assembly it is possible to mistake the latch handle frame for the latch handle itself, and for occupants to insert their fingers under the frame and pull on the frame rather than the latch handle when attempting to release the buckle. This could confuse occupants in an emergency and delay the release of the buckle.
In addition, the lap belt length adjustment is on the latch side of the buckle and the short, fixed strap is on the tongue side of the buckle. The shoulder strap engages in a slot in the tongue and the short, fixed lap strap holds the shoulder strap in the diagonal position across the front of the occupant. Because the belt is mounted with the tongue of the latch on the opposite side of the occupant relative to the shoulder strap, releasing the lap belt loosens but does not release the shoulder strap. The occupant must then either disengage the shoulder strap separately from the lap belt or crawl out from under the shoulder strap to get out of the seat.
The design of the lap belt and shoulder harness assemblies was changed in 1975 with the introduction of the S2275 style assembly. On the new assembly the latch tongue and the shoulder strap are connected and oriented on the same side of the occupant, and releasing the latch releases the lap belt and the shoulder strap in one motion. As well the latch part of the buckle is attached to the lap belt in a manner that precludes occupants from placing their fingers under the latch handle when releasing the buckle. Between 21 July 2000 and 7 December 2000, the operator removed the old S2070H-16 style seat belt and shoulder harness assemblies from the other three Cessna 177B Cardinals in the fleet and installed the S2275 harness assemblies.
Re: Seatbelts in Cessnas
I really believe if you can pony up for it, the 4 point BAS harness is one of the best and simplest ways to improve cockpit safety. Lap belt opens in centre and each side has a shoulder harness attached, so it falls away either side for egress.
Re: Seatbelts in Cessnas
the BAS system is nice but expensive. Has anyone used the Hooker Harness systems?
i want to get a shoulder harness system in place before I switch my 172 M to floats this summer.
i want to get a shoulder harness system in place before I switch my 172 M to floats this summer.
Re: Seatbelts in Cessnas
I have Hooker Harness in both my planes, and have flown them in many others, they are my preferences. The 182 amphib I fly has BAS, but I find that the reel is not really needed. I leave the Hooker loose enough that I can reach everything, and will cinch it up if I think I need to. The installation into a 172 is easy, and AC43.13-2A provides data, so an approval is not required.
Re: Seatbelts in Cessnas
I had the hooker in my 172 and it was great. I also left if loose enough to reach everything, and I could always cinch it up in a forced approach, windy landing, or takeoff type situation. has little to fail (like inertial reels)
