Build your own VOT for $5 - no, no joke

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photofly
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Re: Build your own VOT for $5 - no, no joke

#76 Post by photofly » Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:09 am

I didn't say I aligned it. I said I verified the alignment.

Even PPLs are required to know - and are examined by TC on - the go/no-go tolerances of all their flight instruments, and of a VOR receiver should they have one. If an instrument fails such a check by the pilot it's not considered useable.

A VOR is considered useable for navigation if the pilot carries out one of the four tests you mentioned. Nothing wrong with making a note in the journey log that the pilot carried out one of those tests and found the equipment passed.

In the US, it's actually required for a pilot to carry out just such a test and record the results within the previous 30 days of an IFR flight using a VOR receiver.

AMEs do not own a monopoly on testing equipment and deciding if it's fit for use. Nor on recording the results of such a test in the technical records.

As far as what is "required" - I log lots of things that aren't required. I log every time I update the GPS database. I log every time I add a quart of oil. I've even been known to log how the weather was and if my passenger was cute. If my passenger was my wife, then yes, she was!
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Re: Build your own VOT for $5 - no, no joke

#77 Post by CID » Fri Feb 26, 2016 10:39 am

Goodness me, that must rip you up inside.
Nope. You breaking the law doesn't bother me in the least as long as I'm not anywhere near your airplane.

The very first paragraph in CAR standard 571 is:
Persons who perform maintenance or elementary work are required to follow the manufacturer’s recommendations, or equivalent practices. Where the recommendations of the aircraft manufacturer are incompatible with those of the engine, propeller, or appliance manufacturer, the recommendations of the aircraft manufacturer shall be used. Where the manufacturer has not made specific recommendations, standard industry practices are to be used. These practices include, but are not limited to, methods published by Transport Canada, a foreign Civil Aviation Authority, the manufacturer of a similar product, or other practices that may not be published provided they are generally accepted by the Canadian aviation industry. Similar requirements apply to the selection of parts, materials, tools and test apparatus.
So how does your gizmo and your actions fit in to that? By the way, you didn't break any laws until you entered it into your logbook.

Neverblue, no matter what you write, it's always wrong. But at least you're consistent.
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Re: Build your own VOT for $5 - no, no joke

#78 Post by photofly » Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:09 pm

Checking a VOR receiver by using a VOT is neither maintenance nor elementary work, so nothing you wrote has the slightest relevance.
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Re: Build your own VOT for $5 - no, no joke

#79 Post by CID » Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:53 pm

Checking a VOR receiver by using a VOT is neither maintenance nor elementary work, so nothing you wrote has the slightest relevance.
So a maintainer can't sign off a VOR as tested serviceable by using a VOT station on the field? And your statement has a sliver of truth. Just doing a test isn't maintenance. It isn't "anything". Writing it down and taking credit for the test....that's a different story.

If you had a snag on that airplane regarding a VOR and you did the test with your POS and made a logbook entry to that effect to clear the snag....I think TC would have a problem with that.
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Re: Build your own VOT for $5 - no, no joke

#80 Post by NeverBlue » Fri Feb 26, 2016 4:14 pm

Ahhh...I read your entry wrong...my bad.

Who said anything about a monopoly on test equipment??

...this is Canada right? TC rules not FAA...
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Re: Build your own VOT for $5 - no, no joke

#81 Post by photofly » Fri Feb 26, 2016 4:57 pm

CID wrote:
Checking a VOR receiver by using a VOT is neither maintenance nor elementary work, so nothing you wrote has the slightest relevance.
So a maintainer can't sign off a VOR as tested serviceable by using a VOT station on the field?
I have no idea; I concede you're the expert on both VHF analogue circuit design and paperwork in this thread.

I always fantasized that the kind of traceable, professional, in-depth testing that deserved an AME's signature (with loops and flourishes, and hearts over the "i"s, if you please) involved a bit more than just turning the OBS to 180 degrees and seeing the needle centre with a "TO" flag. I thought simple tests like that were the province of ignorant pilots only and unworthy of being called a "test". Something about science fairs and conjuring tricks. But I'm sure you'll correct me either way.

Of course if you want to check your resolver on any other radials than 360, examine the 1020Hz notch filter response for checking the ident, confirm the audio listen facility and determine the tuning accuracy of the receiver on anything other than a sole frequency, an on site VOT won't do. You'll need something like the "POS" I put together and wrote about in this thread. And I'm just an ignorant pilot.

Finally, are there any VOTs in Canada? There are none around here as far as I know.
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Re: Build your own VOT for $5 - no, no joke

#82 Post by NeverBlue » Sat Feb 27, 2016 10:44 am

Of course there are.

Major airports for sure...114.80 Mhz is a common VOT in Canada.

You get a 0 degree From no matter where you are.
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Re: Build your own VOT for $5 - no, no joke

#83 Post by plhought » Sat Feb 27, 2016 12:53 pm

NeverBlue wrote:Of course there are.

Major airports for sure...114.80 Mhz is a common VOT in Canada.

You get a 0 degree From no matter where you are.
When was the last time you've even been at an airport?

http://www.navcanada.ca/ContentDefiniti ... 30c_en.pdf
It looks like the link is dead but here is the original text:
Decommissioning of VOT facilities

NAV CANADA, the country's provider of civil air navigation services, recently evaluated the requirement for VHF Omnidirectional Range (VOR) receiver test facilities (VOT) in Canada.

The review concluded that VOT sites are underutilized and no longer required. This fact is partly because of the increased use of Global Navigation Satellite System (GNSS) for primary navigation and partly because many VOR receivers are equipped with an internal self-test function.

Aeronautical Information Circular (AIC 36/08) was published requesting customer feedback to determine a decommissioning schedule that is aligned with customer requirements.

Based on the feedback received all VOT facilities at the following sites are scheduled for decommissioning.
Abbotsford, BC Calgary Intl, AB Castlegar, BC Churchill, MB Cranbrook / Canadian Rockies Intl, BC Edmonton City Centre (Blatchford Field), AB Edmonton Intl, AB Fort Nelson, BC Gander Intl, NL Goose Bay, NL Halifax / Stanfield Intl, NS Iles-de-la Madeleine, QC Iqaluit, QC Kamloops, BC Kelowna, BC Kenora, ON Kuujjuaq, QC Oshawa, ON Penticton, BC Pickle Lake, ON Prince George, BC Prince Rupert, BC Québec / Jean Lesage, QC Regina Intl, SK Resolute Bay, NU St John’s Intl, NL Val-D’Or, QC Sault Ste Marie, ON Sept-Iles, QC Sioux Lookout, ON Smithers, BC Sydney, NS Terrace, BC Thunder Bay, ON Toronto / City Centre, ON London, ON Toronto / Lester B. Pearson Intl, ON Moncton / Greater Moncton Intl, AB Saskatoon / John G. Diefenbaker Intl, SK Mont-Joli, QC Vancouver Intl, BC Montréal Intl (Mirabel), QC Ottawa / Macdonald-Cartier Intl, ON Montréal Pierre Elliott Trudeau Intl, QC William Lake, BC North Bay, ON Victoria Intl, BC Windsor, ON Winnipeg / James Armstrong Richardson Intl, MB

These changes will take effect 27 August, 2009 at 09:01 Coordinated Universal Time (UTC). The appropriate aeronautical publications will be amended.
Please don't be dissuaded by the naysayers on here photofly - like I said earlier - I don't know what these guys think their $$$$$ IFR4000 test set is doing any different.
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Re: Build your own VOT for $5 - no, no joke

#84 Post by NeverBlue » Sat Feb 27, 2016 2:24 pm

Well that could be totally true...I haven't done a test like that in probably 10 years.
I did do an internet search and found a number of them...but didn't note the date on the publication.

No need to be hasty...i'm sure that not everyone that's been to an airport knows all the facilities the airport has decommissioned ...is it a requirement or something?

Jeezzzzz.
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Re: Build your own VOT for $5 - no, no joke

#85 Post by NeverBlue » Sat Feb 27, 2016 2:48 pm

...and the IFR NAV 4000 does a lot different...like 359 different variable phases...on all VOR channels...at any RF power level...just to name a few.
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Re: Build your own VOT for $5 - no, no joke

#86 Post by Troubleshot » Sat Feb 27, 2016 3:22 pm

NeverBlue wrote:Of course there are.

Major airports for sure...114.80 Mhz is a common VOT in Canada.

You get a 0 degree From no matter where you are.

Example after example of this google jockey trying to keep up...hilarious
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Re: Build your own VOT for $5 - no, no joke

#87 Post by photofly » Sat Feb 27, 2016 3:32 pm

NeverBlue wrote:...and the IFR NAV 4000 does a lot different...like 359 different variable phases...on all VOR channels...at any RF power level...just to name a few.
Ooh... Ooh... the "Pi-FR NAV 2-and-a-half" does that as well! In fact more - you can even do the hidden radials between the real ones, like the 23.25 degree radial, or the square root of two radial. Bet the expensive one doesn't do that!
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Re: Build your own VOT for $5 - no, no joke

#88 Post by NeverBlue » Sat Feb 27, 2016 5:21 pm

It does everything from 0 - 359.99...it has to.

You should tell the thousands of professionals that bought these units they didn't need it....and IFR that they've fleeced everyone.

Wow...
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Re: Build your own VOT for $5 - no, no joke

#89 Post by photofly » Sat Feb 27, 2016 5:31 pm

I don't really give a toss what other people buy.
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Re: Build your own VOT for $5 - no, no joke

#90 Post by NeverBlue » Sat Feb 27, 2016 10:31 pm

Wasn't meant for you...was meant for Mr. Hasty.
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