Defueling aircraft in hanger

[bonusboy]

We've all been told over and over you cannot defuel an aircraft in the hanger but can someone show me where it says this in the cars or anywheres?

[photofly]

It doesn't say it in the CARs, and you can do it.

[DanWEC]

CARS, don't think so- but it could be present in your local Airport or Municipal regulations. I know you can find these examples in the States-

http://www.flydenver.com/sites/default/ ... ueling.pdf
http://www.qcode.us/codes/palmsprings/v ... -16_40_020

[robertw]

As Photofly said, it's definitely not in the CAR's and you can do it (make sure everything's good and grounded!). That being said, it may be your companies policy not to do this for safety reasons or some of your customers may require this as part of a maintenance contract with your company. As far as local "regulations" go, it's unlikely that any municipal authority has a bylaw on where you can re-fuel aircraft and even if the airport you're located at does, it's probably not enforceable.

[helicopterray]

It's in our company policy manual to defuel outside.

[single_swine_herder]

Its our policy to not fuel or defuel in the hangar ....... ask your local fueller if he would run the hose inside your building and pump in a few hundred gallons into your airplane, and accept the liability.

When we asked him that, he thought we were stupid to even speak to him .... then we said we were developing policy for the manual to ensure we were employing best practises, and he then was far easier to talk to.

One of my operations had a hangar fire, and I'll never forget that vision of black smoke a thousand feet high billowing out the main doors as I drove around the curve leading to the airport. Have that experience, and you err on the side of caution from that point forward.

After all, is it really such a huge handicap to pull the machine outside for that sort of operation considering what the potential ramifications are?

But hey .... its your place, and you likely haven't had your place of employment burn down before, so therefore it really isn't something that happens often enough to be a concern ..... so do whatever you think is best to save a bit of bother and inconvenience.

[Heliian]

What does your insurance company say?

[plhought]

Done it all the time - with pressure and normal refuel using a pneumatic pump/bowser. Hangar has grounding studs in the concrete. Only did it with Jet fuel though. I guess I'd be more leary with Avgas.

[neptune]

Most companies that I have worked with have not had a problem with defueling in hangar provided the common sense precautions are taken and all equipment and aircraft are electrically grounded. Then again you have to go by your company policies.

[YYCAME]

We occasionally transfer fuel aircraft to aircraft in the hanger but we are using proper pressure refueling connections and not just sticking a hose in the overwing cap. I think there is room to do it safely but you need to have some sort of policy about constant monitoring and be able to open hanger doors immediately to ventilate in the event of a spill, not just turning on a boost pump and going to sit in the office for the next 20 minutes.

[rubberboot]

This is usually not a common practice. It also most likely invalidates any insurance policy. I think you will find it in the local airport directives that you are not allowed to park a fuel truck within 50ft of a hangar, so I can't see them authorizing you to defuel inside the hangar.

YYZ airport directives has this in it -

Do not park an aircraft fuel servicing vehicle within 15m of any buildings containing personnel or members of the public including:
- airport terminal buildings
- aircraft cargo buildings
- aircraft hangars
- any other airport structure designed to house the public that has windows or doors facing airside.

[747-875]

I can't recall seeing any regulation regarding fueling or de-fueling in the hangar here, but our company has a general purpose safety rule of if you're just using a bucket to get the last bits out of the drains that's fine but for a proper fuel or de-fuel job with the fuel truck and all take the airplane outside first.

[212wrench]

Since when does common sense have to be in the CARs? It doesn't say to not lock your nuts in a vise in the CARs, but you probably shouldn't do it.

[conehead]

Eewwww.... That would hurt.

[CID]

Common sense? Common sense will tell you that its dumb to perform fuel/defuel operations in a hangar.

[NeverBlue]

Why?

If you can have fueled aircraft in a hangar why couldn't you de-fuel in a hangar.

Electrical safety code and WSIB ensures you take the necessary precautions if you are an AMO.
Why not?

Good idea? It's not a good idea to jump from a bridge but bungi jumping is pretty popular!

Do it right...no problem...

[rolly117]

dont do what airspray did in 1999 it was a very ugly situation

[NeverBlue]

Unplugging a live extension cord on the ground around fueled aircraft in a hanger is a no-no let alone while defueling.

If any other maintenance at all is being done in the hangar it makes it very difficult to do it safely.

[rubberboot]

Why?

If you can have fueled aircraft in a hangar why couldn't you de-fuel in a hangar.

Electrical safety code and WSIB ensures you take the necessary precautions if you are an AMO.
Why not?

Good idea? It's not a good idea to jump from a bridge but bungi jumping is pretty popular!

Do it right...no problem...

it is a matter of what you (and your insurance company) consider acceptable risk...

Sure, it is a calculated risk to bungee jump from a bridge yet all bungee jump companies make you sign a waiver so you can't sue and your personal insurance company won't cover anything should the 1 in a million bungee snap happen. Your family gets to bear the cost of the shovel used to scrap your carcass off the ground.... same goes for any "extreme sport". Hell, I worked for a ground handling company which offered life insurance as part of the benefits, yet in the fine print said you were not covered if you worked at an airport or around aircraft...

Pilots have the same issue - if they get life insurance policies, they had better make sure it covers pilots and they will pay more accordingly

Same thing for fueling or defueling in a hangar. Your insurance company will say "sorry, but you took the risk and your not covered for the fire". Now tell that to all your customers who now have ashes for aircraft... and you are on the hook for everything. Defueling is probably "safer" than refueling in a hangar because fueling pushes the fumes/vapor out the vents yet I personally wouldn't do it.

Doing it right is irrelevant - all it takes is someone else unrelated to what you are doing to "do something wrong" and your in the burn ward at the hospital. Murphy's Law, Karma, Fate, Stars aligned, etc is what you are flirting with and she can be a real biatch...

To each their own though. Who am I to tell you that you can't. If you can live with the potential consequences, fill your boots.

[NeverBlue]

Who am I to tell you that you can't.

Uh...that's what my point was....and it's certainly not TCCA's place to say either.

Fueling or de-fueling is no different at all as far as fumes go. I don't know what you mean by that

And a 150 can be fueled or de-fueled safely in any hangar if the correct precautions are taken.


The general public handles gasoline everyday without any training or Insurance companies input.


Risk?
I think that's what insurance is for no?


Ok...did insurance cover AirSpray?