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 Post subject: AME Wages
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 9:38 pm 
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hard to believe that employers are driving wages down
Whats with this shite! I have held a licence for over 20 years and have few endorsements some good and a lot not so good.
meaning rare A/C
I reluctantly moved to a region in bc that has a lot of commercial aviation and no jobs and the pay is pathetic cause of the sunshine tax!
There is a college that pumping out students so they can brag about there career and it is a no win situ for the vets!
They work for peanuts and can never afford to have a family or a life don't matter how many years they work,hooking up with a heath care worker would make it possible. WTF how is it possible to make a fair wage in aviation and not have to be treated like a slave so they can make money.
From what I have heard in management is: Get the young dog shit and train them They won't know the difference
I talked to a couple of heli operators and they said we have apprentices and apprentice helpers! WOW they don't want to hire any body but young dog shit and certainly nobody that has experience in aviation except helicopters.
we are looking at $10.60 an hour and helpers the same
God help the vets that are training these punks that have a EGO
This is a slave industry shame on you
OK operators I welcome your comments



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 Post subject: Re: AME Wages
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 10:20 pm 
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Apprentice Helper?!

Wow. That's got to be a new low. Hate to imagine the shit they'd be doing...



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 Post subject: Re: AME Wages
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:21 pm 
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Apprentice helper?, Wow.!! Same here as last poster first time I've heard the term in Canada.
I'm going to guess you're in Kelowna but I could be wrong. Lots of commercial av but low wages due sunshine tax. Contracting isn't for everyone but they pay $45 for shot term.



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 Post subject: Re: AME Wages
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:03 am 
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You know, everywhere you go, you have people with stories of their experiences. One guy will say that wages are cr@p and others will say they are fine. One will say working conditions are hazardous and others will say they feel incredibly safe when they go to work. Some will say that managers are untrustworthy, greedy SOB's and others will say that their managers are decent human beings. You know what? It's all true! There are places where wages are worse than others. There are places where working conditions are poor and where they are great. There are managers that only care for themselves and the bottom line and there are those that actually care about safety and their workers.

You can not take your experience and complaint and say that it's that way across the industry. I've been in the industry for 18 years (16 of it licensed M1, M2) and the complaint has always been that wages are bad. A good representation of people will complain no matter what their wage is. Does the CEO who makes $10 mil a year just stuff his money in his / her savings account and just collect .75% interest? No they invest to get a better interest return. Do they refuse their performance bonuses because $10 mil is enough? Nope. Never heard of that. So many people have this sense of entitlement that just sickens me.

I started as an apprentice in 1998 with an operator making $8.25/hr working night shift. In my interview, the DOM told me I had a job as long as I wasn't gay or a holy roller. That was bad. Worked there for a year. Moved across the country to BC and got paid $12.00 / hr with no night shift and good working conditions. One of my managers was a (manageable) terror, but the rest were great. One even stuck up for me when I was threatened with physical violence in the workplace. Said he would flatten and fire the guy if he so much as looked at me the wrong way. Worked there for 3 years and left making $16.00 / hr. My current employer, I've been with for 14 years. I started out in one department making $15.00 / hr (yep, took a pay cut to come here!) but now am on salary making more than double what I started at and that's before good benefits and company contributions to my RRSP. I also have 6 weeks vacation. I have an incredibly flexible schedule and very good management (not without their flaws, but hey, neither am I!).

That's my experience. I have nothing to complain about and everything to be grateful for. Even the not so good jobs. They helped me to get where I am today. As far as BCIT pumping our apprentices and that somehow makes it worse for AME's, well, I can kind of see the logic, but a guy fresh out of school (or 1 or 2 years out) is in no way a replacement for an AME. AME's have experience and licences. No manager worth their salt is going to hire unqualified people to save a couple bucks a year on wages when that would result in grounded aircraft that incur thousands an hour in lost revenue. We very rarely hire apprentices at my current employer. In fact, we find it difficult to get experienced, licensed and good people. By good people, I mean ones who can work well with others, shows up on time for work consistently and does good work and is conscientious.



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 Post subject: Re: AME Wages
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 5:52 pm 
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Quote:
we find it difficult to get experienced, licensed and good people. By good people, I mean ones who can work well with others, shows up on time for work consistently and does good work and is conscientious.



So why is that?

Do you think maybe perhaps the majority who have those desirable traits are no longer willing to serve aviation for the very same reasons you mention?

Hard to attract people who know better.



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 Post subject: Re: AME Wages
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 6:09 pm 
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Flair Airlines Ltd. is a charter airline providing customized charter service to a variety of markets including workforce transportation, niche tours and special charters.

We are currently recruiting for a full-time Maintenance Operations Manager to join our team in Kelowna, BC. The Maintenance Operations Manager is responsible for overseeing the maintenance of the company’s aircraft and various other duties assigned by the Director of Maintenance (DOM).

The Maintenance Operations Manager can expect that travel will be a significant part of the role. The incumbent will travel with the aircraft to provide maintenance support as required. Travel will include Aircraft On Ground (AOG) support at remote locations. The incumbent works with minimal direct supervision on line and heavy maintenance projects in an aircraft hangar environment.

Primary Job Functions:
• Oversee daily routine maintenance on all aircraft;
• Liaise with the maintenance planning function to ensure Maintenance Schedule Approval (MSA) is up to date and current;
• Liaise with maintenance contractors; ensuring all maintenance is compliant to Canadian Aviation Regulations (CARs);
• Resolve any AOG situations that arise;
• Approve the purchase of any parts over $500.00;
• Attend to Aircraft in remote bases and ensure through informal audit that the grooming, maintenance, stores, etc. are compliant with company policies;
• Fly in the capacity of Line Engineer on charters as required;
• Oversee the company’s Inventory Control program;
• Oversee the company’s Tool Control program;
• Assist with recruitment and selection as required; and
• Perform base visits and provide vacation coverage as required.

Secondary Job Functions:
• Assist with business projects as required, such as aircraft purchase and engine acquisition;
• Assist the Regulatory Compliance & Security Manager (RCSM) as required; and
• Such other duties as assigned by the DOM from time to time.

Safety Duties, Accountabilities, Authorities and Responsibilities:
• Involved in reactive and proactive risk assessments;
• Initiate the creation and implementation of corrective action plans as a result of Event/Hazard Reports, Preventative/Corrective Action Requests (PCAR) or audit findings;
• Verify corrective action plans to evaluate effectiveness;
• Encourage active participation in the Safety Management System (SMS) for all employees;
• Report proactive and reactive safety issues;
• Conduct assigned tasks and corrective actions;
• Demonstrate knowledge of employee and management responsibilities regarding safety and actively participate in the company’s SMS program; and
• Maintain familiarity with CARS as it pertains to commercial operations and maintenance requirements.

Qualifications and Education Requirements
• Valid Transport Canada Aircraft Maintenance Engineer (AME) Type “M” license; and B737 Classic experience;
• Minimum of 6 years’ direct experience supplemented with 2 years of Crew Chief and/or Supervisory experience;
• Must possess a valid Canadian driver’s license;
• Must be able to obtain and maintain a Driving Airside License (D/A);
• Must be able to obtain and maintain a valid Restricted Area Identity Card (RAIC);
• Must maintain a valid Passport;
• Clear criminal record check;
• Must have experience in the handling of WHMIS controlled substances;
• Basic computer and data entry skills required;
• Excellent interpersonal communication, organizational and time management skills required; and
• Must be legally eligible to work in Canada without restriction.

Required Competencies
• Proven organizational skills
• Good interpersonal communication skills – written and verbal
• Demonstrated good leadership skills
• Ability to initiate change

The successful incumbent will demonstrate good leadership skills and be highly organized with a high level of attention to detail. They will possess excellent verbal and written communications combined with the ability to work in a high stress, fast paced work environment while prioritizing tasks and assignments within tight deadlines.

Closing date: Sunday, August 1, 2016

Interested candidates should forward a cover letter and resume to Careers@flairair.ca. Applications will be reviewed as received.

We wish to thank everyone who applies but only those selected for an interview will be contacted.


Perfect example of current industry bullshit.

There are three seperate positions, at least used to be, in that ad.
Problem is some asshat(s) saw it fit to apply for it, further reinforcing the supposed validity that the HR dept. of that show felt they have to post that shit.



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 Post subject: Re: AME Wages
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 7:56 pm 
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You know; you need absolutely no qualifications to work on aircraft!!!!!!


BH



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 Post subject: Re: AME Wages
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 7:28 am 
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Pat Richard wrote:
Quote:
we find it difficult to get experienced, licensed and good people. By good people, I mean ones who can work well with others, shows up on time for work consistently and does good work and is conscientious.



So why is that?

Do you think maybe perhaps the majority who have those desirable traits are no longer willing to serve aviation for the very same reasons you mention?

Hard to attract people who know better.

That's a good question and not easy to answer. Yes you are right, that desirable people have left the industry, but there are still plenty of them here. The problem is that they tend to not move around a lot which makes them hard to get. The ones who move around a lot are the ones that jump ship for an extra dollar or two an hour and are not willing to persevere with a company in order to move up the food chain where the better paying jobs are, or are not very employable.



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 Post subject: Re: AME Wages
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 7:50 am 
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black hole wrote:
You know; you need absolutely no qualifications to work on aircraft!!!!!!
BH


Yes, I've heard that repeated a number of times in my career, but I think it's utter nonsense and that people only say it for shock value. From the CAR's:

573.06 (1) An approved maintenance organization (AMO) certificate holder shall implement a training program to ensure that persons authorized to perform or supervise the performance of any function under this Subpart are trained in respect of the regulations, the standards and the AMO procedures applicable to that function.

(2) The program required by subsection (1) shall include initial training, updating and any other training necessary, within the meaning assigned to those terms in section 573.06 of Standard 573 — Approved Maintenance Organizations, to ensure continued qualification that is appropriate to the function to be performed or supervised.


Now of course, this doesn't apply to persons not working under an AMO, but let me ask you, do you know any non AME's working on private aircraft by themselves? Probably not. All AME's are subject to training, licensing and qualification. Sure they can get unqualified people (pilots) to help do some of that maintenance, but the trained and qualified person is the one responsible for overseeing and certifying the work.



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 Post subject: Re: AME Wages
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 7:58 am 
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Pat Richard wrote:
Perfect example of current industry bullshit.

There are three seperate positions, at least used to be, in that ad.
Problem is some asshat(s) saw it fit to apply for it, further reinforcing the supposed validity that the HR dept. of that show felt they have to post that shit.


Pat, it's a free world and companies can post whatever jobs they want and people are free to apply for whatever posting they want to. You're right that there is a lot of responsibility in that ad. Maybe the company compensates well for that position. I don't know. You shouldn't denigrate a person who is willing to do it though.



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 Post subject: Re: AME Wages
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:29 pm 
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I agree its mostly a free world, so of course they can post that and fair enough.
At the same time, I'm (or anbody) is free also to voice their thoughts on what most will see as a shit offer which the likes of are trending more and more because there are some people who are applying.
So on to your next point about my personal comment, I think most of us are way past the point of respecting people who are willing to work towards driving us and the industry conditions we work in continually further down the shitter.
As for compensation, Flair is a lowballer operator who I've personal experience/knowledge of. They are stuck paying wages that were ok twentyish years ago in an area with $500G entry level houses, operating for a zero frills discount air booking company. Thats why they have pounded three or four positions into one position. They can't afford people for all of them or they don't want to.

As for experienced guys left in the industry not wanting to move, from experiences recently, I say there isnt very many and most can't afford to/dont want to move because of the financial incompatibility of aviation wages and cost of living. That and not much confidence that the move will be justified with what they eventually end up with.

Anyway, my two cents! :)



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 Post subject: Re: AME Wages
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:40 pm 
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Pat Richard wrote:
I agree its mostly a free world, so of course they can post that and fair enough.
At the same time, I'm (or anbody) is free also to voice their thoughts on what most will see as a shit offer which the likes of are trending more and more because there are some people who are applying.
So on to your next point about my personal comment, I think most of us are way past the point of respecting people who are willing to work towards driving us and the industry conditions we work in continually further down the shitter.
As for compensation, Flair is a lowballer operator who I've personal experience/knowledge of. They are stuck paying wages that were ok twentyish years ago in an area with $500G entry level houses, operating for a zero frills discount air booking company. Thats why they have pounded three or four positions into one position. They can't afford people for all of them or they don't want to.

As for experienced guys left in the industry not wanting to move, from experiences recently, I say there isnt very many and most can't afford to/dont want to move because of the financial incompatibility of aviation wages and cost of living. That and not much confidence that the move will be justified with what they eventually end up with.

Anyway, my two cents! :)


I respect your view Pat. Always appreciate your candor.



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 Post subject: Re: AME Wages
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 7:37 pm 
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Likewise back to you, Robert.

We don't have to agree with each other to have a respectful discussion.




Pat



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 Post subject: Re: AME Wages
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:09 am 
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Rob TW i am on the same page
Canada is a Training ground for all sorts of people no matter what they take in our institutions
Sign Up give us money that the beauty of Canada I know a couple of Nurses that have been educated at Canadian expenses that are working International and way more bucks than we could possibly make cause of our taxes
Bcit intake is for people with options
and the gov don't care BC bring cash



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 Post subject: Re: AME Wages
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:23 am 
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Pat Richard wrote:
We don't have to agree with each other to have a respectful discussion.

Pat


+1 :smt023



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 Post subject: Re: AME Wages
PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:20 pm 
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Aviation (for AMEs) is overrated, underpaid and highly unstable. Pay has not increased with time in real terms while the cost of living and housing continues to soar higher and higher. The pay for a licensed and endorsed AME does not reflect the responsibilities that go with the job.

The industry can of course continue to force-feed the same bs as long as there is a constant stream of newbees coming out of the schools regardless of whether there is work or not. Yes, it is becoming more an industry of apprentices and their helpers unfortunately.



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 Post subject: Re: AME Wages
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:54 am 
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its a joke. I have one of the highest salaries for an ame i have ever heard of. fixed wing and heli. i have to travel my balls off from one shit hole to another, work weekends, evenings, holidays as required...

there are clowns driving gravel trucks and half assed tradesmen making the same, if not more with OT. just not worth all the negative aspects that go along with our job to stay in it...



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