I have my M1, What are my options to get my M2 license.

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Woody42
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I have my M1, What are my options to get my M2 license.

#1 Post by Woody42 » Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:29 am

I currently have my M1 AME License. How would I go about getting my M2 AME License. I have heard a few things about this. 1 is to do another apprenticeship and fill out another log book for the M2 category, this apprenticeship time would be shorter possibly just 6 months? 2 I have heard you can go on a type course for a M2 Aircraft and that will qualify you for a M2 license. any of this true? looking for answers from people who have done this or have seen this done first hand.
Thanks.
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Luap
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Re: I have my M1, What are my options to get my M2 license.

#2 Post by Luap » Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:36 am

New log book and 1 year on m2 aircraft that an employer can vouch for.
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12mnySTCs
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Re: I have my M1, What are my options to get my M2 license.

#3 Post by 12mnySTCs » Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:50 pm

CAR 566.03 is clear. See appendix A for specifics. If you have a M1, and want a M2 (or vice versa) you will require 12 months "specialty" (different rating than what you have). Letter of employment from a company that operates/maintains M2 aircraft. Get another logbook and fill out tasks that are applicable to M2 aircraft.
Good luck.
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Woody42
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Re: I have my M1, What are my options to get my M2 license.

#4 Post by Woody42 » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:02 pm

thanks guys. that CAR reference is what I was looking for. That answers the question
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Meecka
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Re: I have my M1, What are my options to get my M2 license.

#5 Post by Meecka » Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:33 am

FYI, filling out 70% of the second logbook will possibly take longer than a year, depending on where you are working.
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Heliian
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Re: I have my M1, What are my options to get my M2 license.

#6 Post by Heliian » Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:15 am

The system is flawed, here is my problem. I hold an M1 and several helicopter type endorsements, have held an ACA on M1 Cat aircraft for over 10 years and now hold an ACA on an M2 helicopter which I've had for over 3 years.

Can I sign out my own logbook? I am fully qualified to sign out a logbook and sign out the aircraft with no restrictions.

The people at TC just keep regurgitating the rules but don't actually say if I can sign it out or not.
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12mnySTCs
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Re: I have my M1, What are my options to get my M2 license.

#7 Post by 12mnySTCs » Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:50 am

First question is how did you obtain an ACA for a M2 category helicopter, without having a M2 rated licence? What does your company MPM state?

Secondly, The person who attests(certifies) the task in the logbook is the one who make the maintenance release on the aircraft that the task was completed on.

CAR 566.03 (4) (d) Experience
(i) Applicants shall have acquired the applicable amount of total, specialty, and civil aviation maintenance experience set forth in Appendix A. As proof of experience, the applicants shall submit a personal log book or equivalent document signed by the 566.03
persons responsible for the maintenance release of the work items recorded.
.

If you have a TC issued M2 licence then this is a moot point. If you have an company ACA that allows you to sign M2 aircraft that is different(see above). The logbook will want AME licence # for the person that certifies that task. Company ACA will not cut it.
That statement will prevent yourself signing a logbook task, maintenance release you are not qualified to make.

That's my 2 cents anyway.
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Woody42
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Re: I have my M1, What are my options to get my M2 license.

#8 Post by Woody42 » Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:55 am

12mnySTCs wrote:CAR 566.03 (4) (d) Experience
(i) Applicants shall have acquired the applicable amount of total, specialty, and civil aviation maintenance experience set forth in Appendix A. As proof of experience, the applicants shall submit a personal log book or equivalent document signed by the 566.03
persons responsible for the maintenance release of the work items recorded.
.

If you have a TC issued M2 licence then this is a moot point. If you have an company ACA that allows you to sign M2 aircraft that is different(see above). The logbook will want AME licence # for the person that certifies that task. Company ACA will not cut it.
That statement will prevent yourself signing a logbook task, maintenance release you are not qualified to make.
The way I read that CAR if he has an ACA on an M2 helicopter and is eligible to sign out work on that helicopter he is the "566.03 persons resposible for the maintenance release of the work items recorded"

He signed that task out in the log book wouldn't that make him responsible for those work items.

Your right though this is a weird situation.
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Re: I have my M1, What are my options to get my M2 license.

#9 Post by the_swede » Sat Dec 17, 2016 4:12 pm

12mnySTCs wrote: The way I read that CAR if he has an ACA on an M2 helicopter and is eligible to sign out work on that helicopter he is the "566.03 persons resposible for the maintenance release of the work items recorded"

He signed that task out in the log book wouldn't that make him responsible for those work items.

Your right though this is a weird situation.
I went through this, this summer. After explaining this nonsense to the TCCA inspector he agreed that I was able to sign my own task sheets. This has already been discussed here a few times. :rolleyes: With the letter from my PRM stating time on type (very important to clarify which tasks are applicable) I was able to sign my name and license the cover of the TCCA task sheets. I signed for the work done. I recieved my M1/M2.
-Swede
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Heliian
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Re: I have my M1, What are my options to get my M2 license.

#10 Post by Heliian » Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:37 pm

Thanks swede! I'll be looking into this more in the new year. Merry Christmas.
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Re: I have my M1, What are my options to get my M2 license.

#11 Post by cman » Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:26 am

When I did mine I went to TC and was just quoted the CARs

Which basically said 48 months on type, basic training, 12 months on the category I'm applying for and 70% of the applicable tasks. in the CARS

48 months on type I had I was an M1 licensed AME for several years, time as an apprentice counted.
basic training, I had as I obtained my M1 license and went to college
12 months on M2 category aircraft I had worked for the company for over 2 years
70% of the applicable tasks I got signed off by an AME with a M2, I printed out the list in the CAR's and the AME signed and put N/A next to the tasks that were not applicable to the aircraft maintained as well as what the AMO could do,( if the AMO has no scales and sends the aircraft somewhere else to be weighed then the AME will never get that task.) https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/ ... g-2422.htm

Sent it to TC they called saying the lost my application but had the log book, the next week they called saying they had the application but could not find my log book, (I gave up and said maybe M1 is all I am suppose to be) then 2 weeks later a different TC inspector called and said my M2 and log book is on the way.

Both times were frustrating and I was disappointed to hear that other AME's got an M1/M2 working on the same aircraft I did but TC gave me only a M1.

best thing talk to your tc inspector and see if they agree with the plan
hope this helps.

C
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Re: I have my M1, What are my options to get my M2 license.

#12 Post by Human Factor » Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:54 pm

Is there an expiration date for past completed tasks to apply for an M2 rating?

I ask as I worked on M2 aircraft for three years between 2010 and 2012, logging the tasks as I went but never submitted the application to TC due to my life getting turned upside-down in 2012. I still have the TC paperwork filled out on file and my old company will sign off on my experience gained while employed there but, of course, now it's 2017... would I have to start over or would my previous logged experience from 2010-2012 be accepted for the new rating today?

I currently hold an M1 license and have done for many, many years....
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Re: I have my M1, What are my options to get my M2 license.

#13 Post by the_swede » Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:11 pm

Probably a good question to ask your PMI or your local TC office inspector. LOL The answer may vary from region to region, and even inspector-to-inspector. From my past experience with TC, get your answer IN WRITING.
-Swede
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