Missing tech logs

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boeingboy
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Missing tech logs

#1 Post by boeingboy » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:48 pm

I have a friend who has bought an aircraft - it's been in Canada for years but the tech logs were destroyed in a fire. He has a journey log that goes back 20 years or so, and it has maintenance entries in it. Can he re-build the tech logs by simply transferring the journey log info to new logs? And does TC need to re-certify the airplane or even get involved at all?
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Re: Missing tech logs

#2 Post by photofly » Sat Apr 08, 2017 4:40 am

The owner of an aircraft is permitted to transfer maintenance entries in the journey log to the maintenance records per line 4 of SCHEDULE II (Subsections 605.96(1) and (2)).

It's supposed to be done within 30 days of the maintenance occurring, but I don't see why, in the case of lost records, you can't just get on with it.
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Heliian
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Re: Missing tech logs

#3 Post by Heliian » Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:21 am

You're going to have to talk and sit with an inspector about that. That should be done immediately following loss of the records. If your J log is thorough enough it shouldn't be a problem. However, flags go up if you're selling it and it has incomplete records.
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Re: Missing tech logs

#4 Post by photofly » Sat Apr 08, 2017 11:31 am

Personally I wouldn't volunteer to speak to an inspector about anything. They can only tell you stuff you don't want to hear.

It's not an offence to fly or own an airplane with incomplete technical records, per se. 605.96(4) says you have to keep the technical records and it's a $3000 fine for failure, but since your friend never had the records in the first place he or she can hardly be guilty of that.

As for any loss in value - well, one hopes it was cheap on that basis.
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Re: Missing tech logs

#5 Post by boeingboy » Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:51 pm

Thanks for the replys....I guess the only thing he would have to worry about is the engine.....since there is no way to confirm how much time is on it.
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Re: Missing tech logs

#6 Post by photofly » Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:45 pm

If it's privately operated, there are no hard time limits for the engine (or anything else) that you have to worry about. (Engines time out at 12 calendar years of age, regardless of hours flown, so you are already flying "on condition".)

So go ahead - you can fly it until it falls out of the sky. The only exception I can think of might be some rare STC, but all the ones I've seen are periodic.
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Re: Missing tech logs

#7 Post by PilotDAR » Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:05 pm

For my experience with lost tech logs, creating a new logs was based upon either indisputable records of maintenance accomplished, or accomplishing the specified manufacturer's overhaul, for each component for which overhaul is defined. This would include Prop, governor, mags, and probably carb or FCU, starter, alternator, turbocharger, for some. It may be that records of previous maintenance or overhaul could be found at the shop who last did the work - if you know where to look.

CAR 605.92 seems to be the best reference for the requirements of logs.

I have found my discussions with TC inspectors worthwhile, and never intimidating over the years. When I needed to ask a question, I always felt it was fairly answered, with no concern of repercussions. Contrary to the rumours, TC inspectors are people too, and when they are treated that way, it comes through. Happily, many TC inspectors are pilots and owners among us, so are inclined to see things as we do when they can.
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Re: Missing tech logs

#8 Post by Heavy Iron » Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:42 pm

Your friend should contact TC.

Back in the good old days (were there really any good old days? sometimes I get confused) before the current system of the AAIR (Annual Airworthiness Information Report) there was a form (CCI?) completed annually that gave TC the date of the annual inspection along with the current total times of the aircraft, engine & prop. If he can get a copy of the last one submitted to TC, he can use it to recreate the tech logs for the eng & prop assuming the aircraft still has the same eng & prop installed.

I had to do this many years ago for an aircraft that all logs including the journey log were lost in a fire. This was back in the days when the C of A would expire and be returned to TC if the aircraft wasn't kept airworthy. At the time, the TC Inspector required the new owner to get a notarized statement detailing the loss of the logs. All new logs were started detailing the loss of the originals and referencing the notarized statement. TC then happily reissued the C of A to the aircraft.
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