New Guy Buying Tools

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the dudester
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New Guy Buying Tools

Post by the dudester »

OK, what tools should an apprentice really buy when first starting out? The schools give you this big long list, but some of it seems unnecessary.

Also, I'm having a crisis on what brand to buy. What are the good brands? What are the crappy brands? Should I bite the bullett and just buy Snap-On or Mac???

Thanks!
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boeingboy
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Post by boeingboy »

Lockwire pliers (small, reversable).

Some guys are going to say that Snap-On is overrated - and they may be partly right - but I wouldn't buy anything else. You are going to rely on these tools for your living for a long time to come. In fact, there has been the odd job where Snap-On was the only one that could do the job.

Tools from Craftsman are all right for the most part - I started with them , then replaced them with Snap-On and the Craftsman are now at home. Stay away from Crappy Tire.

These other brands also offer a lifetime warrenty - but that does you no good at 2 AM when it breaks on you and the flight has to go at 5 AM. Or your out in the bush trying to get the machine fixed so you and it can get home and go to bed. I think I've only had 3 warrenties from Snap-On in 10 years. Sometimes I had 3 warrenties a week for the other stuff. I spent more in gas driving to the store with one item - that the gas ended up costing more than the tool! For me it's Snap-On - but you may have to come to your own conclusions.
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624
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Post by 624 »

You'll need a 1/4" and 3/8' drive set of sockets to start with. You will need a good set of screw drivers. A set of wrenches from 1/4" to around 1".
A 7/8ths 1/2" drive deep socket, a 0ne inch 1/2"drive regular socket and 3/8ths to 1/2" drive adapter. A ballpene hammer, a telescopic mirror, a telescopic magnet, snapon duckbill pliers, sidecutters and a small inexpensive toolbox. These tools can be bought at sears or Canadian tire. They are always on sale so don't pay full price. Sears has an outlet of some kind ALMOST everywhere.
Optional but recommended - a cordless drill. 9.6v or bigger with adjustable clutch settings, 2 batteries and a magnetic screw driver tip set, 6"twist pliers, A set of offset wrenches. You will eventually need these but can get along without them for now.The snapon offset wrench sets are 3/8"-3/4". Anything smaller than this in the snapon line is about 30 dollars per wrench and anything bigger is 60 dollars plus.

Depending on what kind of aircraft you work on will determine what you really need so don't get carried away. For example, if your working on twin otters, you will also need a good pair of sorels and a fur rabbit hat. Unfortunately, mitts won't always help.
If I were you I would buy the minimum tools that I out lined. Once you get working you will find out very soon what else you will need. The reason you want a small, inexpensive toolbox(travel box) is because what ever you buy you will soon find you will want bigger and better. I have 8 tool boxes :D
I've probably missed a few items but this will be enough to get you going.
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624
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Post by 624 »

And when you buy the expensive tools, buy snap on. Even though some of the more expensive tools look the same, Sometimes only snap on will work/fit.
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Big_Oaf
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Post by Big_Oaf »

624 wrote:And when you buy the expensive tools, buy snap on. Even though some of the more expensive tools look the same, Sometimes only snap on will work/fit.
A good example of this is the shrader valve on the retractable main gear for 206 wipline floats. Only SK and Snap-on sockets have thin enough walls to fit the hole and still get the valve out.(brands which do not fit include Mac, mastercraft, craftsman,and westward)

I don't think you have to fill tour tool box with ONLY snap-on though. Some tools you have no choice but to go with the best, others aren't so important. You have to pick and choose when the quility is important than the price.
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planeguy
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Post by planeguy »

snap-on ratcheting screwdriver will be your greatest friend. crappy tire wrenches will do the job. a long-handled pair of side cutters (diagonal cutters). a cordless drill. but don't waste your money on too much snap-on stuff, cuz i was told the same thing that only snap-on stuff will fit certain jobs. but i compared some US craftsman sockets that did the same job that only snap-on could do. (12 point, 1/4 drive deeps) and they cost me $25 CDN instead of $158 CDN. I also found proto swivel 1/4 drive sockets to have smaller dimensions than snap-on and they were less expensive.

shop around.
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624
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Post by 624 »

1/4" drive craftsman deep sockets will fit where a snapon won't.
Snapon 1/4" drive swivel 12 point will fit where others won't. Even though my ground thinner proto swivel sockets gets in to the same places my snapons do, the protos that I have aren't as deep so a lot of the time they won't reach the nut. But, sometimes the snap on is to deep and my ground down protos fit better.:D
Don't be in a hurry to buy a bunch of expensive tools. Once you get working you'll know what to buy.
Napa sells a short 1/4" drive gearless ratchet. I've always wanted one of those. Last time I checked they were $30.00
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Pat Richard
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Post by Pat Richard »

You don't HAVE to buy snap-on. Anyone who tell's that nothing else will do is just trying to justify why they paid more for an empty tool box, than they paid for the vehicle they drive to work.
I never could understand why anyone would want to make payments on thier tools for multiple years.Crazy.
Interestingly, ALL of my warrantee issues have been snap on tools. And almost all were ratcheting mechanisms. I was particularly pissed, when, after just 3 months, and less than 10 times total use, my $125 1/4" flank drive ratchet was seized up when I went to use it. This was the second one, and the dealer refused to exchange it, and me wait 2 weeks till parts came in. That repair job also did'nt last, and I had to argue with him to get a new one. Also had the guts of my ratcheting screwdriver, tire pressure gauge,reversible lockwire pliers all replaced for warrantee issues. I've never had to warrantee any of my proto, mastercraft, ultra-pro, or even power fist tools(which are used heavily)all the years I've been using them, and they all have lifetime warrantees. Don't think snap on will come rescue you free of charge either. You PAY to have them show up when thier tools shit themselves if you are out in the bush.
The 1/4" gearless ratchet from napa rocks. I bought one when they first came out in 1999, and even after all the years, inside/outside, it still works perfectly. and the price is about the same it was back then.
My advice is, buy what you can afford. There are some that think that because they spend tens of thousands of dollars on snap on, it makes them superior mechs to those who don't. These guys are more interested in letting you know how much more they paid, and how much "better" thier tools are than yours, than being better mechs. Sort of a "snap on braggers club". I think there chumps for paying what they do, without even considering other same/better tools available.
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planeguy
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Post by planeguy »

and, when i was working in toronto, there was a snap-on dealer who was going to give me a good price on a top chest and roller toolbox... it was going for 16,000 but he was gonna take 1,000 off... so i went to sears and bought a $400 box which opens, closes and locks up until today when i left work... gray makes good tools, craftsman, crappy tire, princess auto (power fist), proto, husky and a bunch more...

another consideration when buying tools, as Pat mentioned, is warranty... how accessible and willing is your dealer, when your 3/8" ratchet craps out one day and you need one the next morning... that's where the convenience of crappy tire, home depot, sears and princess auto tools become intelligent choices rather than the snap-on truck which comes once every week, or month, or in my case, once in the last 4 months... i went with a lot of husky, crappy and sears tools because of their hours of operation, ease and convenience of swapping if necessary (which was and is rare)...
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Hi-Lighter
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Post by Hi-Lighter »

Just a word to the wise

Hit all of the pawn shops that you can - there are lots of good used stuff there and since you are going into the business of maintaing aircraft you need to make some contacts to sell your stuff when you get laid off.

Buy yourself some cheap combination wrenches and a 4" side grinder - you will feel much better cutting, grinding, and torch-bending a cheap wrench rather than your super expensive snap-on.

Buy the best you can for your bread and butter tools - and get lesser quality for the rest to start out - I still have the remainders of a Westward Tool set that I bought in the late 60's. They don't look so pretty and bent and twisted but they can work some pretty neat magic on some tough nuts and bolts.

Good luck
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GoWrench
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Post by GoWrench »

Dudester,

this topic will have a wide range of opinions, as you can see.
IMHO pe paitent with your money. Tools are not cheap, as you are well aware. If you are working, you should be forming an opinion of what you need. If your not working, limit yourself to the basics for now.
1/4 drive sockets 12 point 1/4-9/16 shallow and deep
3/8 drive sockets 12 point 9/16- 1 shallow and deep
combination wrenches 1/4- 1"
wire twisters/lock wire pliers
duck bill pliers
side/diagonal cutters
screwdrivers
I can go on but I think you see what I'm getting at.

I personally have a wide range of tools, Craftsman, Snapon, Mastercraft, Power Fist.I also have a variety of trade tools as well, Avionics/Sheet Metal/Precision measuring tools as well.

Buy what you can afford. There is no reason to put yourself in a whole ton of debt, when your not making the money to justify it.
I have always used this addage and it has worked very well for me.
" IF I borrow a tool MORE than ONCE, that indicates to ME, that I need it.

Some specialized tools should be supplied by the shop you work for.
I don't own a torque for example, because of the calibration and tracking issues associated with it.
However if you are going to work on helicopters, I would dare say, you will need a torque wrench.Also if you end up working on helicopters, in particular french made(Eurocopter) you will need Metric tools as well.

Keep 1 thing in mind, once you have settled into a job, you'll learn very quickly what tools you will need, so prepare for that.
Save your money, and buy what you need.
As for brand, its all up to you.
I hope this helps, and dont ever feel belittled for the brand of tools you buy.
The tools help, but its your Hands and your Brain, that will make determine what type of technician you are, and will become.
Cheers Nick
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crazybushman
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Post by crazybushman »

Oh Boy, we've opened a can of worms :-)

While attending school at Stevenson, we were offered a pretty good deal on Snap On stuff (before we had the money to buy of course), I bought several basics from them. I'd have to say the ratcheting screwdriver is one of my favourites, but because I haven't tried any other brands I really can't compare.

Like mentioned above, it all depends what you're going to get into. I made a trip to the US a while back to purchase some Craftsman tools. They have a much better line of Craftsman down there. I purchased the 12pt. 1/4" socket sets for cheap, I also purchased a really nice crowsfoot wrench set. I'm not a huge fan of the conventional Craftsman wrenched found here in Canada, they are strong, but they are also quite thick and bulky. I prefer the Mastercraft Professional series, I have used mine every day for quite a few years, and there has only been ONE occasion where the open end was spreading and my Snap On wrench out-performed.

I bought a professional series ball bearing toolbox back in 2000, I think the top and bottom were on sale for $700 CND, way cheaper then anything from Snap On. If I could do it over again though, I would buy a much larger bottom roller cabinet (with ball bearing drawers), so that I could have a moveable workstation (it also fits under the wings of planes in a stacked hangar). If a thief breaks into a hangar, which toolbox will be the first to go, think about that for a minute.

I have a friend who has bought virtually every tool from Princess Auto, he's a good mechanic, and gets the job done.

I personally have never been offered more money if I worked only with Snap On tools. Have I ever broken Snap on stuff? Yes, but dealers are shysters, and like saying things like; consumables, normal wear and tear, improper usage, etc. I once had a 10 foot snipe on a mastercraft 1/2" ratchet and broke it to pieces (not on an aircraft btw :lol: ), just took it back to customer service and they exhanged it no questions asked 8)

I have quite a few $$ worth of Snap on that I have bought over the past few years when I have found killer deals, but they are normally WAY overpriced. Sometimes you will need to buy a thing or two from them because you can't find it anywhere else, (like a 8pt 1" socket for oil filters on the 'ol twin otters).

Gowrench has a great list of the basics that you can pick up just about anywhere, princess auto has one way wire twisters that go on sale for $15 every now and then. I use snap on, but I'm sure these would do for a while. The cheapest duckbills I found were from Proto, I think they were 20 cnd, but I don't recall using them too often, you'd probably get away with just the wire twisters. For side cutters, I've found the Channel Lock ones to be of great quality, they have pretty good leverage as well for cutting through thick cotter pins. (apx $20 at princess).

If you're planning on working on float planes, you will be glad you bought a crappy set of tools as the water has an evil way of claiming tools. So far in 5 seasons, I've lost one snap on screwdriver bit, but the river also gave me a black snap on ratcheting screwdriver with the initials J.W. on it, does it belong to any of you guys?!? :-)

There are 2 different ways of looking at initialling your tools, there's me who engraves everything and then there are those who refuse to engrave their tools for fear that it might come back to get them in a Transport accident investigation. It's imperative that you keep track of all of your tools however you do it. I make lots of trips to and from my tool box which might annoy the people waiting for the plane, on the other hand, I haven't lost a single tool in the past 4 years (but have found plenty in funny places....)

Shoot away with any questions you might have!!

Cheers!
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luftmech
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tools

Post by luftmech »

What I would recommend is a good flashlight, a mirror, a Snap-on ratcheting screwdriver, a pair of channel locks and a hammer. For wrenches get the Snap-on off set sizes 3/8 to 9/16ths ( only four wrenches you will need for some time) and the 1/4 " snap-on swivel sockets in the same sizes to go with your 1/4 drive set. Anything else that you have to borrow put it on a list and buy it when you can. Most AME's will let you do this if your are very respectful of their stuff.
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Spinner
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Post by Spinner »

After I got out of school I started buying tools mostly craftsman and proto. Swore I would never buy Snap-on cause it is over priced and too shiny.
HMMM
That lasted to the point where I had some extra money and I started buying snap-on. Now thats pretty well all I have.
Definetly a quarter drive deep and shallow set. Good set of combination wrenches 1/4 to 1". Good set of screwdrivers is a must. A wratcheting one is nice. Mirror, flashlite as previously said. Sidecutters, needlenose pliers, set of waterpump(slipjoint) pliers.
Rest really depends on what a/c you go to work on. Start with the basics and buy all the toys later.
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tcas
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Post by tcas »

You will need hammers, prybars, punches, a couple of sets of sockets and wrenches, some more hammers, duct tape, a little ambition, a sense of humor and some warm clothes.
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