beech B60 Duke

[scopiton]

hi
I know someone willing to buy a Beech 60 Duke for its corporate use
I'm looking for advices concerning maintenance, nbr of cycles, operating cost, mechanical pro & con, can be discussed by pm if you prefer

thanks a lot !
S

[iflyforpie]

RUN!!!

They don't call it the 'sloped nose wallet sucker' for nothing!

Sorry, I used to work on one, but I can't remember any of the details. I just remember the colorful language, and abstract large amounts of money involved in keeping one airworthy.

[Bullet Remington]

Operating Costs for Duke B60
PQ Avg.
Fuel (GPH): 39.00
Fuel Costs/Gallon: 2.58
Fuel Costs/Hour: 102.75
Oil Costs per Hour: 1.99
Maintenance Cost/Hour: 79.65
Hourly Engine Reserve: 51.32
Prop T/R Reserve: 7.03
Total Variable Costs/Hour: 242.74
Average Speed (MPH): 229.34
Cost/SM: 1.03
Annual Insurance: 7,053.88
Annual Hangar/Tiedown: 5,746.51
Training: 4,742.25
Total Fixed Costs: 17,595.89
Hours/Year: 166.58
Fixed Cost/Hour: 109.60
Total Variable & Fixed Costs/Year: 58,812.21
Total Costs/Hour: 352.35
Total Cost/SM: 1.52

Thes are based upon costs associated a few years back. One would be well advised to compute landing fees, current fuel and labour costs, both driver and maintenance.

I do believe the best advise has already been provided and i quote: "Run away like a bat outa hell!!"

For commercial operations, a Duke is a huge finanicial sink hole!! As is it's cousin the Aztec!!

[scopiton]

rigiht you are Remington but those numbers are also very surpising for the Navajo and still, lots of operators swear by the navajo. I might be missing something here, if someone could explain me that would be welcome.

navajo pressurized
Fuel (GPH): 44.00
Fuel Costs/Gallon: 2.24
Fuel Costs/Hour: 99.74
Oil Costs per Hour: 2.00
Maintenance Cost/Hour: 109.49
Hourly Engine Reserve: 74.59
Prop T/R Reserve: 7.67
Total Variable Costs/Hour: 293.50
Average Speed (MPH): 219.90
Cost/SM: 1.31
Annual Insurance: 3,709.41
Annual Hangar/Tiedown: 7,205.70
Training: 4,936.33
Total Fixed Costs: 15,851.44
Hours/Year: 156.16
Fixed Cost/Hour: 102.72
Total Variable & Fixed Costs/Year: 61,763.38
Total Costs/Hour: 396.21
Total Cost/SM: 1.79

[KISS_MY_TCAS]

The B60 is notorious for putting AME's children through university.

Watch for corrosion in the tail, it is magnesium and repair will cost more than purchasing the airplane.
Parts for the older 60 and A60 Dukes are harder to come by and costlier than the B60, but the 60s and A60s can be bought for less....that in itself is usually a warning sign. Not that they are necessarily bad airplanes, they are just more expensive to keep flying.

It is tough to find an AME that has worked on one, let alone knows one very well. Parts are expensive and the systems have more in common with the larger Beech than the smaller ones (King Air vs. Barons) so some smaller shops MAY have to ride the learning curve a little, it is a complex little machine. iflyforpie put it best, "sloped-nosed wallet sucker".

[Bullet Remington]

Geez, Man! if you don't know the difference and reasoning between the DOC's of a Ho and a Duke, you shouldn't be acting as an advisor to anybody considering LEASING this machine!

The Duke, has have been stated, will cost you a hockey sock full of money for parts, and maintenance. Not to mention the loss of revenue in down time. The dispatch reliability when compared to a Ho is like night and day OR the difference between operating inthe Red or operating in the Black.

Ever look at the prices of Hos lately?? Even clapped out machines still fetch a truckload of coin. Why?? Because for the size and power of these Hos along with their ability to be converter to freighters make them a money maker. Plus dukes have geared engines while the Ho's have direct drive! compare the overhaul costs!!

Here's a challenge for you - Find me an operator ANYWHEE in the world that is operating a Duke and/or Dukes for ANYTHINg other then private operation/s AND is EARNING revenue with it and I'll eat me shirt.

Then again, I have a feeling I'm wasting time and you are wasting the time of people responding to this thread. You are not looking for answers, you are looking for someone to confirm that the Duke is a good machine to operate commercially. AND,, ya ain't going to find that anywhere in Canada OR North America!

I did work for a private, non -aviation business that operated two of the Dukes. They finally got rid of both of them! Too bad though, I made a shyte load of money maintaining them!!

If you or the 'potential"customer has that kind of money to throw away, I can get you a smokin deal on a 421 A!!!!

The dude in Calgary don't have access to that kind of money anyways!!

[fortis risk]

Hi Bullet,
Courtesy Air In Buffalo Narrows, SK operates a B-60 duke, at least its supposed to make money. Please eat your shorts, and send me a photo.
I have to say though its a disaster.

[KISS_MY_TCAS]

Plus dukes have geared engines while the Ho's have direct drive! compare the overhaul costs!!

Not true, the Duke is direct drive but the engines are pretty unique. The P-Navajo used the geared 541s.

[scopiton]

Geez, Man! if you don't know the difference and reasoning between the DOC's of a Ho and a Duke, you shouldn't be acting as an advisor to anybody considering LEASING this machine!

there you go great avcanada where asking is a crime sorry for recognizing I don't know everything , by the way where did say I was an "advisor" ??

Then again, I have a feeling I'm wasting time and you are wasting the time of people responding to this thread. You are not looking for answers,

then if you think that learning and asking is a waste of time, I'm glad I'm not working around you, you might have eaten too much of your own shit to give such answers

thanks to the others for you advices

[Bullet Remington]

Hi Bullet,
Courtesy Air In Buffalo Narrows, SK operates a B-60 duke, at least its supposed to make money. Please eat your shorts, and send me a photo.
I have to say though its a disaster.

Fortis:

I was and am aware of marty's machine. And to clarify, i said I'd eat my shirt not shorts. And I also said IF the machine was generating revenue.

As I stated I know of the Courtsy machine when I made the statement and I can safely state I'm good!!

[Bullet Remington]

Geez, Man! if you don't know the difference and reasoning between the DOC's of a Ho and a Duke, you shouldn't be acting as an advisor to anybody considering LEASING this machine!

there you go great avcanada where asking is a crime sorry for recognizing I don't know everything , by the way where did say I was an "advisor" ??

Then again, I have a feeling I'm wasting time and you are wasting the time of people responding to this thread. You are not looking for answers,

then if you think that learning and asking is a waste of time, I'm glad I'm not working around you, you might have eaten too much of your own shit to give such answers

thanks to the others for you advices

Do go back and read your first post again, please and see what you writ!

When you requested info, I gave you the direct operating costs of the machine you requested. You come back with the doc's for a Navaho and state they are the same!! If you wanted advise on the Navaho you should have asked for that! If you wanted a comparison you should have asked for the. You didn't do either!

When a poster asks for advise one assumes that he/she has a genuine interest in obtaining solid advise on the requested subject. When said poster puts up another post implying that the advice given is superfulous, one can only assume that the original poster is simply trying ti justify a decision he/she has already made.

Any body with any time in this business as an AME would know hwere to get the appropriate information on pretty well any machine and would be asking for specific information, not ageneralized request similair to that made by you. having stated that, I would expect a driver to make a post like that, not an AME.

I can only assume that Englisdh is a second language to you, and I took your post out of context. If such is the case, then I apologize. If i am wrong on that assumpstion then I retract the apology and would suggest that you go do something you are not anatomically equipped to do!

And just to clarify for you, I never eat shit! Not my own nor anybody else's. Per chance I hit a nerve with reference to that Calgary dude??

Anyways, if you want to get an idea of the docs for pretty well any general aviation size aircraft, do a search on www.planequest.com that site will give you an out dated list to start from. Then when you know what you DON'T know, post a request here.

And do try NOT to come across like a driver!!!

Good Luck to you!!

[nookie201]

Here's a good writeup on owning/buying a Duke.

http://www.mullers.net/mike/duke/index.htm


If you're going in knowing the maintenance is going to be similair to
a pressurized turbine you're ahead of the curve!, The initial purchase is where the
benefit is financially on P-Navajo's, Duke's P680's ect.

-G

[scopiton]

Any body with any time in this business as an AME would know hwere to get the appropriate information on pretty well any machine and would be asking for specific information, not ageneralized request similair to that made by you. having stated that, I would expect a driver to make a post like that, not an AME.

where did I say I was an AME ? of course i'm a driver
thanks , I won't step in you hangar again