SMS what it can do for the AME - "College" of AME's?

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Gibi
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SMS what it can do for the AME - "College" of AME's?

Post by Gibi »

With the Canadian Federation of AME Associations (CFAMEA) along with Canadian Aircraft Maintenance Council (CAMC) and the Association of Canadian Community Colleges (ACCC) looking like they will be taking over the administration of AME licences this will make it mandatory for all AME’s that want a licence to be a member of AME Canada (or what ever it will be called). This will also be an opportunity to have a single voice in the industry for all AME’s if CAMC does not wipe us all out by then.

My idea is with the implementation of SMS and company self regulation would this not be a body that would be able to act as whistle blower for us, that way we would not have to expose ourselves to reprisal from the company or Transport. One of the prerequisite would be to go through your own company SMS system then if the issue is not corrected you can contact the association that is representing you in your area.

For AME Canada to have an elected individual to fulfill the role of investigator before bringing it before TC would not be that much of a stretch from what TC says the company can do internally, having one more body overseeing how SMS is working from the employee stand point.
After AME Canada brings it to TC they would have to do there own risk assessment on it to see if valid or not, send this report back to AME Canada for follow-up and see what happens from there

The way I understand how SMS will work is Transport will know what operators are in violation of rules by cadors and word of mouth? Not real sure how this will work but if they are looking for input and we can make an association that has some real teeth then maybe we would be able to get some much needed respect in this industry.

Just looking for some input into how this would or would not work out and thinking on how we can make some of these changes work for us instead of against us.
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Widow
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Re: SMS what it can do for the AME

Post by Widow »

/bump

Does anyone have any evidence of this happening? I could swear I saw a post recently somewhere else that indicated some kind of approval for this objective had been realized.

Sounds a lot like what the "College of Pilots" is trying to do ...
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Cranium
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Re: SMS what it can do for the AME - "College" of AME's?

Post by Cranium »

Scary...
It's a bit of a coin toss, but I trust the government to handle regulations and licensing more than:
" CAMC Board of Directors
The Board of Directors is made up of representatives from the following organizations:
Aerospace Industry Association of Canada (AIAC)
Air Transport Association of Canada (ATAC)
Association of Canadian Community Colleges (ACCC)
Canadian Auto Workers Union (CAW)
Canadian Business Aviation Association (CBAA)
Canadian Federation of AME Associations (CFAMEA)
Department of National Defence/Air Command (DND)
International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAMAW)
National Training Association (NTA)"*

That's three business organizations, two college organizations, two unions, DND, and the CFAMEA. (Just in case you're counting, seven of those nine are only out to make themselves money - I'm not counting DND or the CFAMEA in the seven.)

CAMC themselves are in it for the money. Here's how they've watered down the trades.

"Aerospace Materials Specialist
Aircraft Gas Turbine Engine Repair and Overhaul Technician
Aircraft Interior Technician
Aircraft Maintenance Technician
Aircraft Mechanical Assembler
Aircraft Propeller Systems Technician
Aircraft Reciprocating Engine Technician
Aircraft Refueller
Aircraft Simulator Technician
Aircraft Structures Technician
Aviation Electrical/Electronic/Instrument Component Technician
Aviation Ground Services Attendant
Aviation Machinist
Aviation Maintenance Inspector
Aviation Maintenance Manager
Aviation Mechanical Component Technician
Aviation Non-Destructive Inspection Technician
Aviation Painter
Aviation Special Processes Technician
Aviation Welding Technician
Avionics Maintenance Technician
Composite Fabricator
Electrical/Electronic Assembler
Quality Assurance Manager
Quality Systems Auditor
Structures Assembler"*

Of these 26 separate certifications, most of which are currently covered by one AME license, I consider myself proficient enough to do 15 of them.
According to the application form, (http://www.camc.ca/vm/newvisual/attachm ... vidual.pdf), it would cost over $700 initially, and approx $30 yearly to obtain and maintain certification.

Compare that to the "M" license at $40 every six years (CAR 104 Schedule IV)

*All quotes are directly from CAMC's website, www.camc.ca
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Re: SMS what it can do for the AME - "College" of AME's?

Post by Cat Driver »

Can anyone here list ten positive useful things that ATAC has done that they personally benefited from?
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Re: SMS what it can do for the AME - "College" of AME's?

Post by Pat Richard »

A question, you mention "mandatory membership" for AME Canada? Any idea what happens when the majority(I think this very possible) of AME's tell CAMC to pound salt up their arses, and refuses to comply?

I'll say it right here, that I most definitely will not be forced to join anything CAMC. They can take the license and stick it up their asses, if that is the alternative.

Enough is enough with this messed up industry. :evil:
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Re: SMS what it can do for the AME - "College" of AME's?

Post by HS-748 2A »

Pat Richard wrote: I'll say it right here, that I most definitely will not be forced to join anything CAMC. They can take the license and stick it up their asses, if that is the alternative.
Patricia - I'm with you 110% on that.

8)

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Re: SMS what it can do for the AME - "College" of AME's?

Post by Pat Richard »

Yep, and I think there will be many more if they do follow through with it.

I'm actually kinda anxious for this to happen now. Kinda want to experience the bedlam that will result. :mrgreen:

Anybody got a time frame as to when this is supposed to happen?
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ourkid2000
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Re: SMS what it can do for the AME - "College" of AME's?

Post by ourkid2000 »

Hey folks,

What is going on here? I feel in the dark on this matter.......

Every now and then I hear something about CAMC but I usually don't pay much attention.
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Re: SMS what it can do for the AME - "College" of AME's?

Post by Heliian »

Sounds like a big panic for nothing.

There has been no word from TC on these matters and until they start telling AME's directly about licencing changes, CAMC and whoever else can blah blah blah all they want. As the french would say, "Je ne givashit pas!"
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Gibi
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Re: SMS what it can do for the AME - "College" of AME's?

Post by Gibi »

It is moving along but as any government plan at a snails pace, but it will happen, transport wants to and will quote delegate to maximum extent possible. Look what happened to the business side of aviation CBAA has been doing this for some time now, its just a matter of time before the rest of the industry falls into step.

As for CAMC being the crutch of some, they will be a part of AME Canada you will not be under CAMC control (for now :shock: ) transport would not let this advance without them (they are a government organization after all) so it is either join them or be left out in the cold.

If you want some more info you should join your local AME association then ask them to do some education on it at the next conference. They are there to be your voice (if you are a member) and are working hard to keep the AME’s in Canada in the loop.
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Re: SMS what it can do for the AME - "College" of AME's?

Post by Pat Richard »

Interesting, but hardly surprising.

Like I said before, if Im forced to join(or else what??) anything camc, they can blow me. Im sure the worthless chud's who comprise camc(industry) are already rubbing their hands together in anticipation of what they think this will do for them.
Cheap Cracker Jack licenses for everyone and anyone.

Oh the glorious future that awaits aircraft maintenance in canada. But Im sure some here will welcome it, as it should make us more competitive with 3rd world companies.


Never a better time to plan an exit, experienced AME's.
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avanwest
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Re: SMS what it can do for the AME - "College" of AME's?

Post by avanwest »

There is one option that would change our industry. There is very little chance AME's can unite. We all have different issues and don't play well with each other. We are paid so poorly that we will do anything, including step on each other, for more money. The companies use that to their advantage. Companies get together with all these little fractional groups and lobby the government to keep us down. They tell ministers that the industry will crash if wages rise. Pure BS, scare tactics to make the rich richer.

The only way out of this mess is to be recognized as a RED SEAL TRADE.

AME's are not recognized as a trade!! Baker, hairstylist and motorcycle mechanics are trade certified!! Red Seal Trades are regulated to many minimum standards that may include minimum pay and working conditions. Most importantly they are supported by a recognized trade association. They have the power and money to unite for common goals.

I will offer to start a trust fund to lobby for Red Seal Certification for AME's. If anyone is interested let me know.
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plainfixer
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Re: SMS what it can do for the AME - "College" of AME's?

Post by plainfixer »

AVANWEST
Who legislates "Red Seal Trades"? Is this organization run by aviation trained, aviation experienced persons?
I'm asking because I have never herd of the term "Red Seal Trade" before.

Last time I looked, my Aircraft Maintenance Engineer Licence was issued and regulated by Transport Canada.

As I have stared before, the real problem is Transport Canada not doing their job. Transport Canada is relinquishing their duties and responsibilities to whom ever wants to do it.

Example; who has submitted their AME log book, and the [b]receptionist [/b] reviews your book, and then tells you that you have errors in your log book entries? And you then find out your log book entries are correct, she just cannot find "FCU" or "MLG" in her quick reference book.

SMS is a Transport Canada program. Transport Canada wants every AMO to have its own SMS program, so Transport Canada can relinquish that responsibility as well.

If Transport Canada gives the AME licencing away to a bunch of NON AVIATION persons, then I'll raise a SMS on that and surrender my AME licence. Because I will end up earning the exact same pay as a licenced AME under the union run programs. And I will do less work and become a lazy individual. The employer will ask me to do a aviation related task, I'll run straight to the union and cry foul.

plainfixer
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Re: SMS what it can do for the AME - "College" of AME's?

Post by avanwest »

google red seal trade
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guess
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Re: SMS what it can do for the AME - "College" of AME's?

Post by guess »

I would like to see AME as red seal. Its sad to see "Appliance Service Technician" listed and not AME. WTF... seriously.
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