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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 9:22 am 
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I couldn't even remember what the original post was on this little "chat". By the looks of it, we hijacked this thread really well :P


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:30 am 
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I am an EASA B1 (airframe engines) AME who is about to emigrate to your country, after reading this thread I am slightly concerned. We are locating to Vancouver Island, I am sitting the TC tech exams in MAY 2010 M1 M2. I have twenty years on King Air 90 /200/300 Hawker 400`s (Beechjet) Learjet 35 /45 and a bit on Gulfstreams / Challenger etc.

What fate awaits me, its sounding pretty shite!

Before you say "foreign AME piss off" etc.....my Grandfather was Canadian. :prayer:

This thread makes me realise that aviation is the same the world over (at least the western half).

I will be coming over on May 17th to YVR for three weeks, any ideas which companies on the Island that I should approach?

I also have 10 years on turbine helicopters S76A/B/C/C+/ b222/b206(L)AS350/ 355 F and N and EC155.



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:10 am 
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What part of the Island are you going to be living on?

Victoria has VIH (Van Isl Heli) but there is not a lot there for you. Most stuff there is 50 year old float planes and not really fun to work on after modern turbine equipment.

Vancouver Island has what we call the "sunshine tax" Its a nicer climate than the rest of Canada, mild winters etc so there fore if you live here we don't have to pay you much as a lot of other people are applying for the same position. c Toilet cleaner positions in the Gov't get university grad applications, just to live on the Island.

A lot of retired and semi retired folks go there, they have their pensions and don't really need to work but enter the workforce to keep busy.

Not really a great place to raise kids as when they enter the work force there's not much for them except the service industry.
Don't get me wrong, its beautiful but you may have to work in Vancouver and commute like a lot of others. There might be work in Vancouver, just go and make the rounds with your C.V.

Do try VIH as I heard they have or are getting a Challenger, up from a Hawker 125. But I doubt you'll get $25 an hr even with your experience.



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:37 am 
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Longjon....thanks for your reply.

We are looking at Oak Bay or Langford near Victoria.........or is that too predicable for an English Immigrant ?

Do you know how long the commute from the Victoria area to YVR is?

$25 an hour is pooh....should be more like $40, but I get your "shine shine tax" thing.

I have a contact at Viking Air......what you think of that outfit ?

I have no exp on radial piston and to be honest prefer turbines, but if its the difference getting a job or not then..

To get back to the original thread, we have HR people in England that must come off the same production line as your retards.
They will hire any one with a ticket as cheap as poss like the guy with the fresh ticket just out of school they think can do the same job at the same quality level as the experienced AME.

Pilots are the same all over, probably worse in the UK as there are still a few Demi - God handle bar moustache types floating about....I once got asked to do something on a Royal flight S76 and was referred to as a "Grubber"......F%*& off mate.
As long as we wear overalls then we will always be considered inferior to those who wear the uniform / stripes etc.

AME`s and Pilots have to get on as we will always be working together, most of the problems lie in Engineering upper
management. It is these people (weirdly most are X shop floor Engineers, that were shit hands on so got put in the office)
that seem to be the ones with the down-looking attitude towards AMEs.

Thanks Again

John :smt040



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:11 am 
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Oak Bay is more in the city while Langford is the burbs but both would be 30 or more commute to the Victoria airport. To work in Vancouver it would be al least 30 min to the ferry terminal, maybe 1 hr wait in line to board then 1hr 35 min sail and then say 1 hr driver to the Vancouver International. You would have to get a room in Richmond and go home weekends.
Langford is by Collwood and the Collwood crawl is now the Langford crawl. This is in reference to the traffic.

Deffinitly try Vancouver Island Helicopters, a very ertablished and good company. Viking would be ok also but probably doesn't pay enough to make a mortgage payment and live any decent lifestyle.

Does your spouce have a good job? Are you semi retired with a good pension? If you buy a house and expect your job as a AME to get you by and pay all the bills-- B.C. means bring cash- the good luck to you my friend.



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:07 am 
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longjon wrote:
Oak Bay is more in the city while Langford is the burbs but both would be 30 or more commute to the Victoria airport. To work in Vancouver it would be al least 30 min to the ferry terminal, maybe 1 hr wait in line to board then 1hr 35 min sail and then say 1 hr driver to the Vancouver International. You would have to get a room in Richmond and go home weekends.
Langford is by Collwood and the Collwood crawl is now the Langford crawl. This is in reference to the traffic.

Deffinitly try Vancouver Island Helicopters, a very ertablished and good company. Viking would be ok also but probably doesn't pay enough to make a mortgage payment and live any decent lifestyle.

Does your spouce have a good job? Are you semi retired with a good pension? If you buy a house and expect your job as a AME to get you by and pay all the bills-- B.C. means bring cash- the good luck to you my friend.


Viking pays a Level 1 Mechanic ~$30/hr these days. They're the top paying aero company at YYJ. You could try Victoria Air Maintenance. They focus on warbirds and other specialized aircraft.

Living in Victoria and working in Vancouver is a no-go. The ferries are slow and expensive and flying is out of the question. Vancouver has also just been flooded with AME's recently laid off from Cascade Aerospace in Abbotsford. The chances of landing an AME job on the west coast of BC are very slim at the moment.

If you're looking at Oak Bay to live, you'd better have a $100,000 handy to cover the required 10% downpayment on the million dollar mortgage you'll be looking at. The rest of Victoria is cheaper, only $450,000-$750,000 for a nice fixer-upper.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:07 am 
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Does your spouce have a good job? Are you semi retired with a good pension? If you buy a house and expect your job as a AME to get you by and pay all the bills-- B.C. means bring cash- the good luck to you my friend.

Dear Human Factor

Have you seen the house prices in the south of England ? Four bedroom detached house £400-450,000 current (shite) exchange rate is 1.7 CA$ to 1 UK£. It was $2.2 to the pound for years......bollocks.

I realise it is the most expensive place to live in Canada, the more replies I get, the more I think I will have to live around Vancouver instead of on the Island.

My wife does not work, I have no pension except some rental income.........so maybe I`m screwed if I want to live on the Island and work in Aviation ?

We are all DOOOOOOMED. :rolleyes:



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:33 pm 
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Don't be discouraged, do try Victoria as the quality of life is far better than the rat race of the big city. Check out VIH and get a basement suite on the penninsula by the airport, N.Saanich, Saanichton or even Sidney are good places to live.

If you go to Vancouver you need Mandrin or Cantoneese or Punjabi but being from the UK you probably have a working knowledge of one of these. I was in Hounslow recently and couldn't believe the number of "British Empire" residents. There is more work in Vancouver but because of the location of the airport there is only residence on 3 sides and housing is very dear till you get 100 miles out the valley.



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:57 pm 
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Thanks Longjon

I only know English, I used to work at London Heathrow so know what you mean :lol:

I`m not really one for the big city life, I live out in the sticks a bit (probably not to a Canadian). I will give VIH a call, but have already done so with no response. Trouble is I`m not much use unlicenced.......

If only there where a fleet of "G" / European reg aircraft in the YVR / Victoria area.

I`m not giving up, it took me 3.5 years to get the frekin permenant res visa. I`m 38 with three kids under 7 and think your country has better

opportunities for them and a higher standard of living / more space / easier going people etc etc ...grass greener bla bla.



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:12 am 
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longest check your PM's


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:38 pm 
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longestboat, have you tried Helijet? They operate S-76A

http://www.helijet.com/n/

Also, I believe PanEuropean on these forums is with Viking.

Cheers,
Kirsten B.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:00 am 
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Snoopy

Thanks, I will take a look. :wink:



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:35 am 
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I wouldn't be too hopeful with VIH. They, much like a lot of the heli operators, are not that busy. Viking still seems to be hiring here and there from what I hear. Other than those two places in Victoria there isn't much else locally. Im glad your visiting first, so you can see for yourself how little there is for opportunities in aviation on the island.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:35 pm 
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In relation to experienced AME's leaving the industry, I had an interesting morning.

Two AME acquaintances of mine, phoned me within an hour(they don't know each other/live in different areas) to let me know they are done with aviation. One effective immediately, the other one in the next month.
These guys between them have almost 34 years combined experience, and are in their prime working years.
"Reason for leaving?", I ask, to make a long story short, lifestyle, pay, lack of respect for AME's, and a "future that looks worse than the past", is what I listened to within 2 hours of each other.
The other common thing was both of them mentioning how many people they know talking/working on getting out of aviation. I think the exodus of experience guys is just beginning, and these are the types the drones from AC and Cascade have no chance in replacing successfully. I think you're going to see a lot of halfwits being used to fill vacancies.

This should be good... 8)


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Last edited by Pat Richard on Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:31 pm 
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As the saying goes "Misery loves company" works the best in the AME field. Of all the coffee time discussions I have been apart of 95% of the time it is bitching and complaining by everyone about how bad the industry is (and I was adding fuel to the fire too). If the work is so bad then QUIT. I decided that I don't want to be those crusty old engineers on the floor that are bitter towards the world. I got tired of being angry. Life is too short for it. This downturn in the economy was the perfect chance to leave and try something new. Bye-bye aviation.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:47 pm 
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Pat,
Maybe we should post the ratings and licence categories held by the AME's who are leaving or about to leave.
This is so the "Halfwits" can see what is being lost. (not that it will register in their brains)

Example one: 4 ICAO AME licences.
Airframe, Powerplant, Electrical, Instrument and Radio Categories.(M2/E)
4 wide body ratings(Boeing, Airbus, McDonald)
7 narrow body ratings (Boeing, Airbus, Lockheed, and other unmentionables)
20yrs time invested as AME.


Above listed is ONE PERSON who has left the AME trade.

So how many apprentices is that HR?

Plainfixer.



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:53 am 
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Wow, that's quite the list of qualifications.

As for replacement value, that's a big question, considering the general mediocre quality of apprentices showing up these days.

I can't say I've ever personally even known anyone with that kind of resume, and going the way it is, I don't think I ever will.

But even if we say 7 apprentices, my worry is who's going to lead them? I know of many AME's who have quit positions(crew chief) recently because of frustration(babysitting) in these types of positions.
An interesting thing I've noticed in job ads recently is that "the ame must be willing to instruct apprentices" being more prominent. Obviously there is a growing problem.

Like I've said before, I've worked with some decent newer apprentices, but many have been arrogant, lazy, and just plain stupid, and not willing to admit when they have screwed up. I also know several companies who actively look for apprentices/engineers who are 30+ years old.

Too many bad experiences with the younger crowd, but to be fair, I hear the same from other trades.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:35 pm 
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Pat,
Most of the guys from my era are multi endorsed, multi licenced, mainly from their travels around the globe.

Even if the AME who is leaving the trade only has one endorsement, it will be difficult to replace that individual because of the experiences/ quick fix/ inside knowledge is being lost.
The Halfwits who are running/about to run the aviation establishments need to have an idea of what type of person is leaving the AME trade. They only know items on paper eg: licence, endorsements, etc. These Halfwits have no idea about the knowledge gained by the AME on systems, common fixes, known technical issues, MTBF for certain items.
These Halfwits look at the per hour rate of a licenced AME and compare it to the per hour rate of an apprentice AME. Their decisions are based on this.
Then they find out in certain cases the cost of the Apprentice taking much longer to do the maintenance task, costs of re-occurring failure of system because they did not correctly TROUBLE SHOOT the original snag.
So by putting something on the forum that a Halfwit might relate to (printable on paper) they might start to comprehend what is being lost.

Example:
Pilot on B737-200, 5000hrs PIC. (Halfwit can quantify a value)
AME rated on B737-200. (Halfwit has trouble quantifying a value)

Plainfixer



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 2:07 pm 
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Thanks for the many responces here on this forum in answer to the original question (re engineers).

Just to follow up, I agree that there appears to be a major exodus of AME's from the industry. It is too bad and I believe the industry will suffer because of it.

We never did find the highly experienced engineer to add to our team, unfortunately. Still amazed at the lack of responces from qualified people, however, it does prove out as this forum has discussed and revealed. We did however find an experienced records clerk who has stepped in to help relive pressure from our DOM who now has more time doing what he does best (fixing airplanes). I personally believe that part of the problem with AME's staying in the industry, is the onorus paperwork made mandaory by TC (ie SMS for small carriers that does no work). So much of it (paperwork) now is so much bullshit that I can see good guys who can see through the bullsit leaving the industry.

Anyways, cheers and best of the world to you all.

Wilderness Norh Air



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 2:34 pm 
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wildernessnorthair wrote:
Thanks for the many responces here on this forum in answer to the original question (re engineers).

Just to follow up, I agree that there appears to be a major exodus of AME's from the industry. It is too bad and I believe the industry will suffer because of it.

We never did find the highly experienced engineer to add to our team, unfortunately. Still amazed at the lack of responces from qualified people, however, it does prove out as this forum has discussed and revealed. We did however find an experienced records clerk who has stepped in to help relive pressure from our DOM who now has more time doing what he does best (fixing airplanes). I personally believe that part of the problem with AME's staying in the industry, is the onorus paperwork made mandaory by TC (ie SMS for small carriers that does no work). So much of it (paperwork) now is so much bullshit that I can see good guys who can see through the bullsit leaving the industry.

Anyways, cheers and best of the world to you all.

Wilderness Norh Air


wildernessnorthair

i think you missed the point.
the reason AME'S are leaving the industry is not because of the amount of paper work!
the paper work aspect has always been there and is part of the job.
the reason is poor pay,hours/shifts,bullshit from management,companies with lots of promises then deliver nothing, companies going broke owing the ame's money while the owner buggers
off with the cash,no respect for the ame,companies going south for checks,pressure to sign
out junk from management.........shall i keep going!.
you seem to have found a band-aid solution to your problem.
a clerk to take the load off your dom so he can fix airplanes?
i can't believe what i'm reading!
spoken like true management!

brv



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 6:21 pm 
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It was not our 1st choice for our maintenance solution, however, it's a step in the right direction, and we're still looking.

Nuff said ... good day!



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 6:54 pm 
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wildernessnorthair wrote:
It was not our 1st choice for our maintenance solution, however, it's a step in the right direction, and we're still looking.

Nuff said ... good day!


why won't you admit the real problem?
why can't you get an AME hired at your amo?
is it so hard to accept what has been discussed about this topic?
don't tell me "Nuff said ... good day" you started this and apparently didn't learn anything
during the 4 or 5 pages of response.
hell, pat even got this topic made into a sticky!
even if you management types won't admit it,i think the message has been well received at your "company".
i doubt you will ever get an ame worth his weight to work at your place.
lots of people talking about this one outside of avcanada!

nuff said...good day.


brv



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 8:25 pm 
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I got tired of the same old crap from helicopter companies. Every fall they let there contract engineers go for the fall to lower costs. Then over the winter they are so short staffed they fall behind on maintenance. Come spring then hire us contractors back but are expected to make up the shortfall in maintenance. I would have been willing to lower my rate over the winter because I know the cash flow for the company is not there so I will do my part to help but it seems management never sees it that way.

So being tired of the same BS every fall I have decided to leave the industry. There is never any direction from management. They only see, if lucky, six months down the road.

Someone was asking to get the information on the AME's leaving here is my info. I had 8 years experience with a AS350 and MD500 endorsement with experience in fixed wing working on C208, Metroliners and King Air 100/200.



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:22 am 
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I have really enjoyed reading this topic. I guess some companies still don't get it.... (hired a clerk so the DOM can work on planes.///???LOL.... I supossed that hiring an experience engineer at $30-$40/hr is out of the question... DOM should not work on the planes full time, they have better things to do, unless the DOM only knows how to turn wrenches.
I have had many endorsment during my 20 yr career in the aviation industry.. B206,MD500,AS350,Lear 25-35,BA31,32, DHC2T, DHC3T, DHC6, C208, PC12,HS748, PA31T Just to mention a few.... plus extensive knwoledge on A/C Rebuilt, A/C importation (2), Material specialist, Shipping/receiving, recertification of components, In House shops fixing and rebuilding flight control surfaces......
But unfortunate, according to all these companies hiring Apprentices is the answer to their problems, I am not even worth $40.00/hr GO FIGURE.
I have been trying to get out of the industry, but unless I go to school and study for a better career, I will die looking for a good company that eppreciates my qualities.

Keep it up guys.... maybe some day these TWITTS get it.



Last edited by crc_66 on Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:07 am 
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I'll do, and have done, paperwork all shift long, and I could care less whether Im wrenching or sitting at a desk. Just pay up.

I'd actually prefer just doing paperwork at this point.

I'm sure Im not the only one.

You're down to the dom working on the floor, and you say "It's a step in the right direction."??!

Yep...things are starting to look up for you

:rolleyes:


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