If not AME then??

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Kirmanisr@gmail.com
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If not AME then??

Post by Kirmanisr@gmail.com »

Hi folks,
I am new to this forum & my query may sound silly. I have an Easa license and am trying to get a decent(anything that pays 30-35$) job in Canadian aviation. But it looks like a daunting task for a foreign license holder to crack a decent job. So I want to explore my options & would like to know which companies (other than aviation) will hire AMEs or jobs that pay decently considering our qualifications. Or in which other fields we can work without having to start from scratch.

TIA
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-42
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Re: If not AME then??

Post by -42 »

You could try McDonald’s. They might drool at the fact that you have a 737 endorsement. But in all honesty no one cares that you have an AME licence. Run away from the prospect or idea that anyone gives a rats ass that you worked on the space shuttle when applying for another mechanical trades job. Good luck.
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chowda
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Re: If not AME then??

Post by chowda »

Have to adnit to what -42 said. Nobody cares if youre an airwrench and there definetly is not a cross qualification in this country because we are not classified as a "red seal" trade, as the rest are.

Everybody I know who has left for other trades had to start from scratch regardless of years aviation wrenching.
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helicopterray
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Re: If not AME then??

Post by helicopterray »

There seems to be a misunderstanding of a 'Red Seal' qualification.

Aviation is federally regulated and the licensing is federally issued, so we can work anywhere in the country with our AME license. (Or pilot license.)

Other trades are provincially licensed. The license is only good for the province it's issued in. To work in another province, one would need to be issued another license.
The 'Red Seal' qualification minimizes the bureaucracy. If you get a red seal ticket, you can work across provincial lines without having to requalify.
We, in aviation, can already do that, so we don't need a red seal.

To the original question, you should be able to work in a large shop where you can get issued an SCA, and can work towards getting an AME license, where upon you can be an ACA holder.
An SCA is a Shop Certification Authority that is only valid at the company you're working for and does not transfer to other companies.
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-42
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Re: If not AME then??

Post by -42 »

Ummmm he was asking for “other than aviation” shops hiring AME’s not trying to dip his whistle into another plane polishing job. SCA=zero ambition and will pay shite. Red seal trades allow you to transfer time to an extent from one trade to another to acquire another qualification which unfortunately an AME license does not allow you to do. It’s essentially worthless unless you want to travel from one said crappy job in one province to yet another crappy job working nights for bum pay in another. Back to school and start over, you’ll be glad you did.
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Bug_Stomper_01
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Re: If not AME then??

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

chowda wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:30 pm Have to adnit to what -42 said. Nobody cares if youre an airwrench and there definetly is not a cross qualification in this country because we are not classified as a "red seal" trade, as the rest are.

Everybody I know who has left for other trades had to start from scratch regardless of years aviation wrenching.
That’s not true, you can be granted up to 6000 hours of 8000 hours of a 4 year apprenticeship to a similar mechanical trade in the red seal world. I know several ames that went into heavy duty that did just that. You do have to do a trade equivalency assessment at the provincial level do a year of apprenticeship and one term of school (8 weeks for heavy duty). From there you write your exams and get issued a provincial license. From there you can write for your red seal, it’s really a misunderstood process that nobody in aviation knows about. Companies like finning toromont etc actually have departments to handle this.

Aside from that there are companies that like ames for industrial turbine maintenance like solar. Wind turbine technicians are also cross seeded well. There’s lots of options for technicians out there and lots that changed hats during the pandemic and won’t look back to aviation once they see what they are treated like and paid like elsewhere.
Toromont hired a bunch of guys from the airlines to basically be service guys in the field making 35-$40/hour from what I understand as just lube techs (I can’t remember the designation the company gives them, a reliability tech or something?).
There is lots of work out there you just have to be resourceful and creative enough to find it.

I do agree with Chowda and -42 in sentiment. Being an AME in Canada SUCKS
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-42
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Re: If not AME then??

Post by -42 »

I am not sure where Bug stomper is getting his intel but it’s pretty clear on the ITA website even for heavy duty that AME qualifications don’t mean squat. You might be a wrench but you won’t be credited time towards gaining qualifications for a Red Seal from AME time or credentials. Went down this path years ago…..in BC anyways. If you went from HD to Truck transport or Plumber to pipe fitter. It’s all on the web. Wind turbine is not red seal so…..plus heard that schedule/lifestyle doing that licks also.
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Bug_Stomper_01
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Re: If not AME then??

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

-42 wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 10:05 pm I am not sure where Bug stomper is getting his intel but it’s pretty clear on the ITA website even for heavy duty that AME qualifications don’t mean squat. You might be a wrench but you won’t be credited time towards gaining qualifications for a Red Seal from AME time or credentials. Went down this path years ago…..in BC anyways. If you went from HD to Truck transport or Plumber to pipe fitter. It’s all on the web. Wind turbine is not red seal so…..plus heard that schedule/lifestyle doing that licks also.
I don’t care what the website says -42, not every provision and caveat will be posted there, and furthermore, I DID IT PERSONALLY! I have friends I’ve helped in Ontario, Alberta, Manitoba, NWT, AND BC that all made the switch. Just helped another in Ontario not more than two months ago. It’s doable in every province you just have to be smart enough to get accredited. I encourage anyone wanting to get out of AME work to visit their governing provincial trade board wether it be ontario college of trades, alberta industry training etc and ask about a “trade equivalency evaluation” and ask to speak to someone with the transition and your intentions.
Too much to post here but anyone reading this feel free to DM me for more info I’ll walk you through it, I’d be more than happy to help people out of this garbage and into something better paying with a better schedule.
In short there are provisions for outside trades like military mechanics, foreign licenses, domestic similar trades (automotive to heavy duty) and yes AVIATION. Toromont has an entire department dedicated to this task.
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all_ramped_up
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Re: If not AME then??

Post by all_ramped_up »

Was looking into this in Nova Scotia during the height of the Pandemic while I was laid-off.

Yes, having my AME Diploma counted so many hours of credit towards Apprenticeship for Elevating Device Mechanic. So it is definitely possible to get some use out of our training in other similar trades.

Ended up staying in Aviation since I'm so close to finishing my M1 license. Whether I stay after that though, tough call.
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-42
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Re: If not AME then??

Post by -42 »

I agree it might be different if you got the diploma from the puppy mills and paid to polish airplanes. A few people went the ICS route which is the way to go in my opinion. Same licence at the end but minimal cost and paid the whole time. There are grants galore for trades and these days companies are starving for breathing bodies. Good for whoever got some time credit towards another trade as long as you get the ticket in the end not just a “technician” job. Paper on the wall does mean something in the end just not in aviation especially in the Red Seal trades. Not sure if wind turbine qualifies.
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-42
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Re: If not AME then??

Post by -42 »

Also on the elevator repair/service/install topic. Had several conversations with Tysen Krupp guys. Heavy duty union which is awesome as they don’t piss around, great benefits/wages. Downside is and I watched it, like heavy duty your body will be a mess as it’s all “heavy duty”. Plus what they told me is once you install a few it’s pretty boring. Got to have the variety and least physically demanding imop. There is a life after work and you want to be able to do it.
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Bug_Stomper_01
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Re: If not AME then??

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

-42 wrote: Sun Jul 10, 2022 10:28 am I agree it might be different if you got the diploma from the puppy mills and paid to polish airplanes. A few people went the ICS route which is the way to go in my opinion. Same licence at the end but minimal cost and paid the whole time. There are grants galore for trades and these days companies are starving for breathing bodies. Good for whoever got some time credit towards another trade as long as you get the ticket in the end not just a “technician” job. Paper on the wall does mean something in the end just not in aviation especially in the Red Seal trades. Not sure if wind turbine qualifies.
Well 99.99999% of ames I know born after 1956 went to a “puppy mill” for part of their apprenticeship for various reasons including job prospects and actual training. I respectfully disagree with ICS being the way to go as it’s a four year (minimum) OJT and you have to grind out the program on your own time (unless the employer pays for your schooling time) and I don’t know many employers that accommodate that.
Schooling is important for any occupation, regardless of the state of education these days.
I know guys that were in my program that went the red seal route directly out of college and were granted 1-2 years of time towards their respective trades based on that diploma.
Again it all comes down to the trade equivalency assessment and the provincial requirements which are all very similar surprisingly from what I’ve observed in helping these people.
At the end of the day you have to be hired and registered by your employer as an apprentice before the process begins.
Another key factor is what you can sell the employer for your experience and what THEY are willing and allowed to apply for to AIT, TIA, OSOT or whoever the governing body is for the apprenticeship equivalency time conversion.
Every employer of the people I’ve helped have applied for maximum time allowed (it’s in their best interest to expedite the process).

Another key factor which I haven’t stated previously is training and apprenticeship provincially is INDUSTRY REGULATED through the training association not the other way around like AME licensing through Transport Canada. Very big difference.
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RLK
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Re: If not AME then??

Post by RLK »

Kirmanisr@gmail.com wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:28 pm Hi folks,
I am new to this forum & my query may sound silly. I have an Easa license and am trying to get a decent(anything that pays 30-35$) job in Canadian aviation. But it looks like a daunting task for a foreign license holder to crack a decent job. So I want to explore my options & would like to know which companies (other than aviation) will hire AMEs or jobs that pay decently considering our qualifications. Or in which other fields we can work without having to start from scratch.

TIA
I am a Red Seal automotive technician that is looking at jumping over to aircraft for various reasons.

Having a AME license will allow you to get your foot in the door of basically any mechanical trade with ease. It proves that you have technical ability and high dexterity skills. You are going to be a fast learner and already have a good work ethic.

If you move to another trade, you are going to start at the bottom. You have to learn new technology and how things are done. If the apprenticeship system let's you apply some of your hours, awesome. But at most, they will let you skip first year schooling. But why would you do that? You will miss out on information that will directly help you advance in the trade.

If you make the jump, you will be a first year apprentice, but that does not mean that you have to be paid like one. Your wage will depend on how skilled you are and your negotiating skills. You need to be realistic, experienced HD/automotive techs make $30-$60 an hour, you will not be paid that with no experience. Instead of $18 an hour you could get like $21 and build up from there.

If you want to change fields, it's going to hurt for a bit.
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Bug_Stomper_01
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Re: If not AME then??

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

RLK wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 8:44 am
Kirmanisr@gmail.com wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:28 pm Hi folks,
I am new to this forum & my query may sound silly. I have an Easa license and am trying to get a decent(anything that pays 30-35$) job in Canadian aviation. But it looks like a daunting task for a foreign license holder to crack a decent job. So I want to explore my options & would like to know which companies (other than aviation) will hire AMEs or jobs that pay decently considering our qualifications. Or in which other fields we can work without having to start from scratch.

TIA
I am a Red Seal automotive technician that is looking at jumping over to aircraft for various reasons.

Having a AME license will allow you to get your foot in the door of basically any mechanical trade with ease. It proves that you have technical ability and high dexterity skills. You are going to be a fast learner and already have a good work ethic.

If you move to another trade, you are going to start at the bottom. You have to learn new technology and how things are done. If the apprenticeship system let's you apply some of your hours, awesome. But at most, they will let you skip first year schooling. But why would you do that? You will miss out on information that will directly help you advance in the trade.

If you make the jump, you will be a first year apprentice, but that does not mean that you have to be paid like one. Your wage will depend on how skilled you are and your negotiating skills. You need to be realistic, experienced HD/automotive techs make $30-$60 an hour, you will not be paid that with no experience. Instead of $18 an hour you could get like $21 and build up from there.

If you want to change fields, it's going to hurt for a bit.

I think you’re nuts to get into an AME apprenticeship with the state of affairs Canadas industry is in. There is no accreditation for your trade and you will be MINIMUM 4 years before you’re licensed if not double that (logbook requirements and some employers are purposely holding apprentices back these days for financial reasons).

And as for OP;
Hard to say, he has a license but it’s not a Canadian license. Provincial apprenticeship councils allow 3/4 years maximum experience accreditation (of a recognized AME license in Canada) after the trade equivalency assessment forms are completed and a letter of recommendation from the employer is submitted. He won’t be starting at the bottom. But again red seal world is industry regulated unlike AME trade which is regulated by TC.
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RLK
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Re: If not AME then??

Post by RLK »

I think you’re nuts to get into an AME apprenticeship with the state of affairs Canadas industry is in. There is no accreditation for your trade and you will be MINIMUM 4 years before you’re licensed if not double that (logbook requirements and some employers are purposely holding apprentices back these days for financial reasons).

And as for OP;
Hard to say, he has a license but it’s not a Canadian license. Provincial apprenticeship councils allow 3/4 years maximum experience accreditation (of a recognized AME license in Canada) after the trade equivalency assessment forms are completed and a letter of recommendation from the employer is submitted. He won’t be starting at the bottom. But again red seal world is industry regulated unlike AME trade which is regulated by TC.
[/quote]

Not all Red Seal trades are the same. The automotive trade has zero regulation. In 20 years of working in the trade I have never seen any type of industry/government representative. There is no repair standards or rules, or anyone to enforce any type of standards. You will be given a vehicle to work on, you will have zero service information and tooling. You have professional shops using enthusiast forms for service information because the shop can't or won't afford the proper information. You do a loosely regulated apprenticeship get your license then fend for your self for the rest of your career. The automotive industry does not have CAR's, we are regulated by capitalism.

Employer holding back apprentices, the same thing gets said in the automotive industry. Everyone is starving for competent staff. If you are being held back, there is a reason for that.
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Bug_Stomper_01
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Re: If not AME then??

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

RLK wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 6:55 am I think you’re nuts to get into an AME apprenticeship with the state of affairs Canadas industry is in. There is no accreditation for your trade and you will be MINIMUM 4 years before you’re licensed if not double that (logbook requirements and some employers are purposely holding apprentices back these days for financial reasons).

And as for OP;
Hard to say, he has a license but it’s not a Canadian license. Provincial apprenticeship councils allow 3/4 years maximum experience accreditation (of a recognized AME license in Canada) after the trade equivalency assessment forms are completed and a letter of recommendation from the employer is submitted. He won’t be starting at the bottom. But again red seal world is industry regulated unlike AME trade which is regulated by TC.
Not all Red Seal trades are the same. The automotive trade has zero regulation. In 20 years of working in the trade I have never seen any type of industry/government representative. There is no repair standards or rules, or anyone to enforce any type of standards. You will be given a vehicle to work on, you will have zero service information and tooling. You have professional shops using enthusiast forms for service information because the shop can't or won't afford the proper information. You do a loosely regulated apprenticeship get your license then fend for your self for the rest of your career. The automotive industry does not have CAR's, we are regulated by capitalism.

Employer holding back apprentices, the same thing gets said in the automotive industry. Everyone is starving for competent staff. If you are being held back, there is a reason for that.
[/quote]

I am well aware, by “industry regulated” I meant regulated by industry shops (the industry) not the apprenticeship council. Automotive is pretty wildly changed for the worse I agree. I’ve been an AME for decades and I can honestly say it’s been getting worse exponentially for the last 15 years. Apprentices being held back aren’t because of incompetence but to keep all hands on deck at a reduced rate while a few competent ames sign for the work. It’s even getting that way in the helicopter world from what I’m seeing which is surprising.
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SeptRepair
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Re: If not AME then??

Post by SeptRepair »

Another field I have seen a couple fellow AMEs jump to is Millwright. Much of the same accreditation counted towards a red seal that BugStomper spoke about. To me the pay was on par from what I was already making, and I was employed, so I didnt pursue it. The two guys who got their millwright ticket, now are back in aviation for the time being. They jump back and forth depending on job availability.
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Bug_Stomper_01
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Re: If not AME then??

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

SeptRepair wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 8:17 am Another field I have seen a couple fellow AMEs jump to is Millwright. Much of the same accreditation counted towards a red seal that BugStomper spoke about. To me the pay was on par from what I was already making, and I was employed, so I didnt pursue it. The two guys who got their millwright ticket, now are back in aviation for the time being. They jump back and forth depending on job availability.
Yep I came back too, people do get different careers and bounce back to this racket on and off. It’s very easy to walk away for better money, better lifestyle, better treatment, but hard to walk away from a discipline you’ve invested so much into.
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PitchLink
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Re: If not AME then??

Post by PitchLink »

Bug_Stomper_01 wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 5:07 am
SeptRepair wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 8:17 am Another field I have seen a couple fellow AMEs jump to is Millwright. Much of the same accreditation counted towards a red seal that BugStomper spoke about. To me the pay was on par from what I was already making, and I was employed, so I didnt pursue it. The two guys who got their millwright ticket, now are back in aviation for the time being. They jump back and forth depending on job availability.
Yep I came back too, people do get different careers and bounce back to this racket on and off. It’s very easy to walk away for better money, better lifestyle, better treatment, but hard to walk away from a discipline you’ve invested so much into.
You’re 100 percent correct. I think this time however I’m out for good. I can’t do the travel anymore, it’s killing me
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hikoki otaku
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Re: If not AME then??

Post by hikoki otaku »

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