Future AME Discouraged

[Pat Richard]

try here

http://www.verticalmag.com/


probably get a faster reply.

good luck

[ourkid2000]

I can't believe I'm telling this story on here but I've been so bummed out all day over it that I just had to rant to someone. Anyways......so, my hot water tank burst yesterday and made a mess.....Our home warranty covered the damages & a new hot water tank. So the company sends out the local plumbing service to install the new tank and remove the old one, yadda yadda yadda.

So I'm outside having a look at what happened to our old one and I get talking to the guy. He's in his late 20's (much younger than me) and I ask him how long he's been doing it. He says about 5 years or so........roughly the same as I.

I mention to him that I'm thinking of leaving the aircraft maintenance industry and ask him if his job is decent. He starts telling me pretty much everything about it.........the guy's getting $32 per hour and he's very happy with his pension (this is Nova Scotia now too.....not Alberta). He also mentions how happy he his with the job overall and that he recommends it to anyone who asks.

So here I am standing in front of this fella with 3 years of schooling behind me, M2 & E license and an ACA on a transport category aircraft for a major airline makin' 25 bucks an hour. I won't see 32 bucks an hour for another 5 years.

I'm not ashamed to say I've been gutted the whole day.

[Pat Richard]

Yep, it is what it is....

Would any mouthfoamer like to chime in with a "cant handle the pressure", "money isn't everything", "its cooler fixing airplanes", "my basement suite is all I want", "if you don't like it leave", etc, etc etc??

Maybe you had an epiphany...

trying to be positive

[Fling Wing]

Couple days ago I talked too a rotary AME. Asked him about the job, the sched, the ups and downs. His only gripe was dealing with hotshot pilots, the rest he said he loves, working outside on a big helicopter, never knowing where you and the helicopter will be the next day (they were chasing fires or something).

I asked him if he still like's his job, his reply: I've been doing this for 20 years and don't see myself leaving anytime soon.

Fixing helicopters is cooler than fixing airplanes.

[torx]

I can't believe I'm telling this story on here but I've been so bummed out all day over it that I just had to rant to someone. Anyways......so, my hot water tank burst yesterday and made a mess.....Our home warranty covered the damages & a new hot water tank. So the company sends out the local plumbing service to install the new tank and remove the old one, yadda yadda yadda.
I mention to him that I'm thinking of leaving the aircraft maintenance industry and ask him if his job is decent. He starts telling me pretty much everything about it.........the guy's getting $32 per hour and he's very happy with his pension (this is Nova Scotia now too.....not Alberta). He also mentions how happy he his with the job overall and that he recommends it to anyone who asks.
So here I am standing in front of this fella with 3 years of schooling behind me, M2 & E license and an ACA on a transport category aircraft for a major airline makin' 25 bucks an hour. I won't see 32 bucks an hour for another 5 years.
I'm not ashamed to say I've been gutted the whole day.

Well there you have it Ourkid! You've been poking holes in the industry you chose for some time now, so if you're still young enough, quit your sh*t paying AME job and be a plumber. In ten years down the road, when there are a glut of plumbers looking for work and a shortage of AMEs', you'll be having the same discussion with an AME while fixing his water tank. You'll be making $30/hr and the AME will be making $50/hr.
It ain't all gravy boy!

[ourkid2000]

Don't get me wrong Torx.....I love my job. I simply feel that what you put into a career path should jive pretty well with what you get out. Right now, it's just not working out that way. If you spent 50k on school, would you expect to be paid $25 an hour?

Way back in 2002 I had been a rampie at Air Canada for several years and found myself laid off many times. I was getting really sick of this routine and finally decided to make a change. I took this opportunity to get some Gov't assistance to be an AME. As part of that process, I had to do some market research about the future of the career. Well one thing I had was a copy of AC's current IAMAW contract (same union with the mech's) and what the AME's were making back then. That contract, I believe, was signed in 99'.....somewhere around that time anyways. I used this as part of my research to present to my case-worker and I still have the information package I presented them and what I predicted for my future.

The wages really have not changed much since......

For example....when I left AC, a Lead on the ramp made 24 bucks an hour at the top rate. After 3 years of schooling, 2 years apprenticing as an Avionics tech & 1 year apprenticing as a Mechanic, Transport Canada CARS exams, ACA exams, logbook, and almost 6 years in I only make 2 bucks an hour more than the Lead......10 years later. A plumber, who took a 2 course and worked as an apprentice for 4 years now makes more than a 20 year Crew Chief AME responsible for heavy maintenance & dozens of AME's at a major airline. So what I put into what I do just doesn't jive.

Don't get me wrong, I know life as a rampie hasn't been easy either.......it just seems the regular rules of careers don't apply to the AME trade compared to other trades. I just do not see how it happened.

[Pat Richard]

In ten years down the road, when there are a glut of plumbers looking for work and a shortage of AMEs', you'll be having the same discussion with an AME while fixing his water tank. You'll be making $30/hr and the AME will be making $50/hr.

There will no shortage, there is no shortage of experienced AME's.

There is, and will be, a shortage of experienced AME's wanting to work for 30 bucks an hour.

You're effing dreaming, or stoned, thinking you will see majority of AME's making 50 a/hr.

Nice try though, but that pipe dream has been around almost as long as airplanes.

[billy ray valintine]

In ten years down the road, when there are a glut of plumbers looking for work and a shortage of AMEs', you'll be having the same discussion with an AME while fixing his water tank. You'll be making $30/hr and the AME will be making $50/hr.

There will no shortage, there is no shortage of experienced AME's.

There is, and will be, a shortage of experienced AME's wanting to work for 30 bucks an hour.

You're effing dreaming, or stoned, thinking you will see majority of AME's making 50 a/hr.

Nice try though, but that pipe dream has been around almost as long as airplanes.

+1 on that!
too many ladder climbers(idiots) willing to do this job for a shit wage who can't say no!
AME'S will NOT see 50.00/hr ,ever!!!!!................................sorry.

brv

[The Weasel]

+1 on that!
too many ladder climbers(idiots) willing to do this job for a shit wage who can't say no!
AME'S will NOT see 50.00/hr ,ever!!!!!................................sorry.

brv

This is an interesting comment. Yes, 50/hr is out there, I've been there and seen others doing it, but I guess some people say no to working certain jobs...If you want to work in the bush, do some travelling, or work contract, 50/hr is out there for the taking. But I guess too many people say no to it, thus the reason it is 50/hr. Granted, things are slower the last few years so maybe not 50/hr for a while, but give it a few more years, and we'll be back to the shortage of AMEs we had 4-5 years ago, and yes, there WAS a shortage of (rotary) AMEs 4-5 years ago, despite the comments made by Pat.

Sorry guys, but once again you are bad mouthing the WHOLE industry, when you can't speak for the whole industry. Not everyone is in the same boat. Sounds like things are pretty rough on the union/Air Canada side of the industry, but it's not the same all over.

[Pat Richard]

Granted, things are slower the last few years so maybe not 50/hr for a while, but give it a few more years, and we'll be back to the shortage of AMEs we had 4-5 years ago, and yes, there WAS a shortage of (rotary) AMEs 4-5 years ago, despite the comments made by Pat.

I'll try this again.....

There is no shortage of experienced AME's, there is a shortage of experienced AME's willing to work for 30ish an hour in shitty conditions
In the case of helicopters, by saying you couldnt get guys for a supposed $50 a/hr, of which I know no one making, you are actually admitting not many want to work in the conditions I described earlier.
If conditions were/are so shit hot with regards to lifestyle/working conditions, and they're offering $50 a/hr, like you and others claim here, why no stampede?? Why the shortage??? What was keeping people away or making them leave??? I dare say more than one person had the same opinion of that lifestyle that I did and they have talked with their feet and continue to do so.

A question everyone should be asking is why is it so hard for companies right now, in a recession, to find experienced AME's?? I could name three companies that can't even find enough contractors right now.
The "shortage" from a couple years ago never really abated, and the then booming economy blew up in aviation's face. Many good guys left for better offers in other fields instead of staying at there old aviation jobs. Money/lifestyle talked and off they went, and it is still going on.

The biggest reason I call BS on the wages going to 50 a/hr is that I saw how cheap companies were to most experienced guys during the last "boom". This was a boom most long timers had never seen the likes of EVER, and although most every company was screaming for guys, you were hard pressed to get much more than 30 bucks an hour with night shift thrown in.

It set a precedent, and this is why I believe things will not get better.

Don't know if I was also being included with the AC thing, but I have said it before, and will again, "I've never worked for AC/Jazz or any union in aviation.", and I don't claim to speak for the WHOLE of aviation.

Just most of it

[ourkid2000]

Instead of arguing, lets switch it up and try to figure out how this happened......

How is it that we've hit this $30 per hour ceiling for such a specialized field? I blame it on the airlines.

Airlines have been so hard on so many mechanics over the years that many of them feel lucky to have a job so they'll take less than ideal conditions just to keep paying the bills

[PJ1]

I still visit avcanada just for old times sake, I guess aviation is still in my blood. Having said that I quit it all together three years ago. When I quit AC I had a M1,M2 319,320,321 757,767 200-300 series endorsements. Along with a bunch of engine endorsements. In 99 I was a new AME and a acting CAT at air canada and made $31 per hour. When I quit in 2008 I made $32 per hour strapped with a family and mortgage I was broke as a joke. The wages are the shits period. In both M1 and M2 world.

The AME is a multy talented highly skilled individual, the problem with "most of you" is that you are too chicken shit to try something new.

At this point I am non current and hope I never have to earn a living in aviation. I'm 35 if any one is wondering, started GA at 18 licenced by 22. I have to say that I was warned by the old timers but like many other young apprentices on here I did not listen.

[crazy_aviator]

Could you enlighten us on what profession you have chosen now and how the renumeraton is ?

[Wonderdog]

If there is one tool you want in life, is the ability to fix and fly. The career will keep your head up, your income down and horizons wild open.
Have fun,
SMcL.

[PJ1]

Could you enlighten us on what profession you have chosen now and how the renumeraton is ?

I started my own business doing septic system installations, septic fields and holding tanks for the most part. Also do municipal sewer and water installs. My net is anywhere between 2K to 6K a week but only for eight months of the year. Between dec and march I dont work much.

[ourkid2000]

Nice work PJ1.....

Good to see someone go for it. I think that most people are starting to clue in that there's simply not a great future in fixing airplanes and are making plans to get out. Of course there are exceptions to this and I'm sure there are some decent jobs out there but they're very hard to find.

I'm 33 and everywhere I've worked so far, I am usually the oldest guy on the crew. So it seems that there is plenty of young people still young enough to get out and I've been seeing more and more people leave as of late.

I told my plumber story around the hangar a few days ago to just about anyone who would listen and people were loosing their minds!

[conehead]

A few years ago a plumber was called to my buddys house. When he showed up, my buddy noticed that the guy was wearing a Jazz ballcap, so he asked him about it. Turns out the plumber was a F/O on Dash-8's, working the plumbing gig on his days off. Said he made a lot more money as a plumber...

[Schimunga]

To Pat and BRV--If aviation is such a shitty profession why and I ask again WHY have you not tried getting into a new field that pays more?

[Schimunga]

And one other thing I would like to ask...In my ten years of being an AME I have found that fixed wing AME's bitch and complain alot more then rotary AME's. Is that true?

BRV--you don't need to respond because I know 10 years experience means nothing to you. You have said so yourself.

[billy ray valintine]

[quote="Schimunga"]And one other thing I would like to ask...In my ten years of being an AME I have found that fixed wing AME's bitch and complain alot more then rotary AME's. Is that true?

BRV--you don't need to respond because I know 10 years experience means nothing to you. You have said so yourself.[/quote

i know you don't want me to respond{some how i think you do!},but i will enlighten you anyway.
back in 1997/98/99,i worked for a company that could not find fixed wing AME'S.
three rotary guys were hired and did the switch from helicopter to fixed wing {airlines}.
first of all,they are great guys,and great AME'S,but did a fair amount of bashing towards the
rotary side of aviation.
helicopter stuff didn't sound so appetizing to me,however i did not experienced it personally.
i have retired from aviation,but still do some part time stuff in the industry{small a/c}.
i also work part time for a marina near my cottage doing maintenance on customers boats.
I LOVE IT!!!.
it is sad to see the aviation industry go down hill in the last decade or two,but PJ1 said it all
when he made 31/hr in 1999 and only made 32/hr in 2008.
one dollar an hour for almost ten years work.
are you starting to see what is going on here?
if you guys think that aviation is the place to be....,then do it.
i personally don't see a bright future as far as wage and good companies to work for.
it will be ..get in...get out for the owners from here on in.
don't agree? stay tuned.


brv