Whats involved to become an AME?

[172pilot]

A few dumb questions.

Whats the typical career path to becoming an AME, say working for an airline or private shop, working on turbine equipment etc? I know SAIT in Calgary has an AME program, but then what? Whats the usual career progression and career outlook right now?

Sorry, I really have no idea about this side of the industry.

[flyinggreasemonkey]

The best start would be an accredited school, like NAIT, SAIT, Canadore, etc.
This only gives you basic skills however. The best route is to find a stable AMO after college with a very experienced AME who will be willing to mentor an apprentice, not just sign off a log book.
I can't comment on the job situation as I am biased towards the negative. Aviation in Canada gets ignored as a skilled trade. You'd make twice as much in half the time with half the effort as an electrician and all you do is run wires and hook up boxes. Aviation technicians have to know such a broader range of skills and know them just as good as a plumber or electrician would know their skills. I made the choice to leave aircraft maintenance because I found it too aggravating to deal with (not the actual work...I loved that...I'm talking the people and politics). After working for the 2 worst companies I've ever seen in any line of work back to back, I'm done.

I hope you have better luck than I did

[iflyforpie]

I did the AME program at SAIT over ten years ago. The program is two years, and you get 18 months credit for the required 48 month apprenticeship.

Generally, a career progression is whatever comes your way or what you try to make it. Usually, once you go fixed wing or rotary wing, you stay that way. For fixed wing, you either go heavy (airliners), or general aviation since they are two different licenses (M2 and M1 respectively). You get your experience and get your logbook tasks signed off. You also have to write a bunch of tests, which IIRC all but CARs are now done at the school.

If you work on larger aircraft, you need type endorsements to sign off work. These endorsements are usually provided by the company, typically with a two year bond.

I can't say too many good things about the industry now. Flyinggreasemonkey has it right, especially for the larger companies. Lots of politics, zero job security, and below average remuneration. When I started I got practically dragged off the street to work in a shop, now there seems to be a glut of unemployed AMEs as most shops are losing business to third-world, third-party maintenance.

I work as the only AME in a small AMO, so I avoid most politics and have pretty good job security. But it was hell to get where I am, having five jobs in as many years and working at some of the worst places imaginable.

[azimuthaviation]

You'd make twice as much in half the time with half the effort as an electrician and all you do is run wires and hook up boxes

Kinda coincidental that its the ones who want to do the least amount of work for the most money that are the ones who never succeeded in this industry dontcha think?

[flyinggreasemonkey]

I never said that. I'm pointing out the unfair comparison in pay and workload between aviation and regular trades.

[culver10]

[robertw]

That was the most hilarious thing I've seen in a while! Awesome!

[Fox 3]

I really enjoyed that, great work to whoever made it. I loved how he assembled the wheels into the tires, pretty cool.

[Fox 3]

Oh, and to the original poster (forgot all about the topic after watching the film) flyinggreasemonkey hit that nail right on the head. I too left the field after working in it for the last 13 years and I haven't looked back. Seemed to me the biggest challenge was not to find good money or a good place to work, it was finding the two at the same place. The politics get worse as time goes on and every single company is always trying to do more with less (that is a fact) and it get's tiring being the guys who are expected to do more with less. Not trying to say pilots have it easy, because they don't, but Transport regulates them in a lot of ways that AME's are not.
Let me ask you this: How many companies do you think would do annual rides or all those expensive hours of training if TC didn't say they had to? None, not one, I don't care who they are. And that's what it's like being an AME, they are not required to give you so many hours of training each year or send you on a course so you can do your job to the best of your ability (not including M2 here). Another example, when a new run is added to the schedule they have to hire more pilots (to a certain extent, again I understand they get pushed to duty limits all the time) but they are not required to have a certain amount of qualified staff in the maintenance department. How many shops out there have 2 or 3 AME's and 8 or 9 apprentices? A lot, too many in fact. So what does that do? it ensures that the experienced AME's don't have time to teach apprentices anything and are left running their feet off just trying to get the shit in the air with minimal ground support (ie. parts, tooling, etc.). As a result of that you inevitably have inexperienced apprentices doing work under no supervision because that is what needs to be done in order to get the job finished on time. And the general mentality out there is "the plane has to fly"...@#$! me...It's a scary situation out there and I've seen it time and time again, cutting costs and corners, doing more with less. Scary.
And don't even get me started on this self regulated shit show called SMS. Self regulation does not work, bottom line. Don't believe me? Go rent the movie "Tapped" and get ready to see yet another terrible example of self regulation. Hey, if they can do it to your drinking water, why not do it with the aircraft you fly in?
Ok, ending rant very soon, hang in there.

I highly recommend you take a long hard look at what you are about to do and ask yourself if it's worth it. Hell, ask your girlfriend/wife/kids if it's worth it. If they tell you it is, they are lying, it's not. The only possible way it is worth it is if you can find a great place to work (they're out there) and don't have to worry about a pay check. Oh and when you find that place, don't be surprised if it's a less than desirable place to live. And when I say less than desirable I don't mean it won't be beautiful or warm, I just mean it will be somewhere that takes you away from your friends and extended family. There are a few choice places out there that are great places to work, no doubt about it and a few people on here have found those places, but what are the chances it's got everything you want? That to me is what I think about when comparing this line of work with others. That electrician job can be literally anywhere, big city, small town, wherever and the pay check will still be pretty good no matter where it is. And the other thing is there are several different companies to choose from in those places, or you can start your own company without having to take the same risks or have a million dollars like you do in aviation. Shit. Sorry, my rant continued even though I was trying to end it.

Regardless of what you do, good luck with whatever you decide.

~FOX~

[Fox 3]

Kinda coincidental that its the ones who want to do the least amount of work for the most money that are the ones who never succeeded in this industry dontcha think?

To a certain degree you are right, there are a lot of people who are that way and expect to be paid high for doing nothing. However there are also a lot of people who do work hard and have succeeded in this industry but finally figured out that it just isn't worth it and your family life suffers because of the side effects. I was a Director of Maintenance by the time I was 30 years old, I've made fantastic money and can still get a job with a company that isn't even hiring, so in my case it has nothing to do with not succeeding. In my case I was seeing the effects it was having on my family and that being on call or expecting basic things like a heated hangar and proper tooling and being told "it is what it is" was not acceptable. It's when you start looking around you at other people who are making just as good a living in other trades with a fraction of the stress and bullshit, that's when you realize it's not worth it. It just takes some people more time than others to see it, and some day you will too.

~FOX~

[Troubleshot]

Fox absolutely nailed it with those two posts. I am also very close to getting out of this industry, I have had a couple of interviews for jobs outside aviation and they have gone well. I won't settle for just "getting out", I tell these non aviation companies that they will get a highly skilled, multi-faceted technician that does things right the first time....BUT I don't come cheap, and nor should I. The most calls I get are regarding Facility Manager positions.

The new gig will have to be a well established company that treats their managers like actual managers not the diluted version in Aircraft Maintenance....how many times in this industry have you seen the Production Manager or QA Manager vito'd by the DOM? Me? Lots!! Or you write up a snag at the end of your shift and the aircraft is AOG, you go home to go to bed (during the day) and then to find out someone pen-whipped your snag so the plane could fly.

My younger brother works in IT, he's been doing it for about 7 years and I have been in aircraft maint. for about 15. He makes more money than me, works days, holidays off, paid training to places like Vegas, Arizona, Florida, etc...I just shake my head sometimes.

IF....I mean when I am out of this industry in a month or so, I'll check back in to fill you all in.

TS

[Stumper]

Excellent posts Fox 3!!

[Stumper]

You'd make twice as much in half the time with half the effort as an electrician and all you do is run wires and hook up boxes

Kinda coincidental that its the ones who want to do the least amount of work for the most money that are the ones who never succeeded in this industry dontcha think?

I agree that wanting to make the least amount of money for the most possible effort would be the target profile of someone who could excel in this industry. Being born without balls and a natural gag reflex seem to be consistent precursors to success and advancement as well .

[Pat Richard]

Excellent posts Fox 3!!

+1

The duty time thing is ridiculous. The fact that an AME is expected to be flogged to get the a/c out the door is unbelievable, but there is still too many hero's willing to "man up", so it continues.

Not for me. I do 10's, maybe an 11, but thats it, and I have no problem saying that to anyones face, no matter how much they freak out.

Life too short to appease idiots.

[Schimunga]

Troubleshot--Are you still in aviation or have you followed your younger brother's path and gone into IT if the money is better and less headaches?

To Pat and Stumper--Again, I have asked you this before and still haven't gotten an answer, if it is so bad in aviation why are you still in it?

[Cranium]

Sorry about this being off topic, but...

Canada Labour Code Part III
Maximum hours of work

171. (1) An employee may be employed in excess of the standard hours of work but, subject to sections 172, 176 and 177, and to any regulations made pursuant to section 175, the total hours that may be worked by any employee in any week shall not exceed forty-eight hours in a week or such fewer total number of hours as may be prescribed by the regulations as maximum working hours in the industrial establishment in or in connection with the operation of which the employee is employed.

(otherwise provided info - unless there is an unforeseen emergency, or a permit from the minister, or a useless union that's agreed to it, or an averaging agreement)

Duty times bug me. A company can't LET you work more than 48 hours per week even if you want to.

Back to reality...

[Troubleshot]

Troubleshot--Are you still in aviation or have you followed your younger brother's path and gone into IT if the money is better and less headaches?

To Pat and Stumper--Again, I have asked you this before and still haven't gotten an answer, if it is so bad in aviation why are you still in it?

I am almost done...then all the "great" jobs will be left for you, ok?

One word comes to mind when I read post like yours...sucker...why? cause you honestly think that the AME trade is on par with other professions out there, and that is fine by me because I know after years of hearing and knowing ex-AME's going to other industries and hearing the sucess their having in salary, benifits, quality of life, etc ...makes me confident I am making the right decision to jump ship.

The latest sucess story is a friend of mine ,who is an ex-AME left aviation and is now supervising maintenance at a wind turbine farm. He was given a brand new truck (can use as personal vehicle) 80K/year, excellent benifits, all days, training out the yin-yang, ALL TOOLS PAID FOR, paid trips to trade shows, and he hardly does a lick all day to be honest.

I know several more stories, but I'll spare you the hurtful words because it puts your beloved aviation to shame (most professional jobs do). So when your on your way home in the morning next month maybe I'll meet you on the road on my way to my new career. Or maybe I'll head out with my friends on the weekend while you sit home on your tuesday night off and you can't sleep cause your circadian rhythm is shot.

But hey you work on airplanes....that wears off fast kid.

[CBAME]

Agreed,

" But hey you work on airplanes....that wears off fast kid"

its funny it feels at times the owners/operators feel they are doing you a favour by allowing you to work on there fancy aircraft.

I had one guy offer to by me lunch if I drove half an hour each way to rebuild his nose oleo.
Or a case of beer for a log book signiture, yes I like beer, but I work so I can buy my own.

The Lego Video forgot to show where the pilot tells the AME how to do his job, and questions every single thing. they also tend to stand between your tool box and the area of the aircraf you are working on. I think its part of the training. Don't get me wrong some know there stuff and are a good help, others, can't even make the cofee.

I am also working on my exit strategy, afer 12 years, I've prety much had enough.

This post is NOT edited for grammer and spelling,

[burhead1]

This post is NOT edited for grammer and spelling,

+1

[burhead1]

What is the cost associated with the schooling?