Encore AME jobs

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Pat Richard
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Re: Encore AME jobs

Post by Pat Richard »

It's obvious...I know HOW to be an AME...and not have to find something else

Are you saying every AME that has left the industry left because they didn't know how to do the job?
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NeverBlue
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Re: Encore AME jobs

Post by NeverBlue »

No
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Re: Encore AME jobs

Post by NeverBlue »

http://business.financialpost.com/2014/ ... =6b3c-5fb2
 you feel entitled to try tell me how it is
I'm not trying to tell you anything...I didn't write those articles
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Stumper
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Re: Encore AME jobs

Post by Stumper »

No need to worry yourself so much neverblue.

I know who troubleshot is; he has a good name in these parts and would have no trouble getting back into aviation in the odd event that wind energy implodes. He wouldn't need to hor himself out at $24/hr either. I am sure he is touched by your obvious concern though..

Talkers talk.. And convince themselves that they are looking where the puck is going by accepting jobs at subpar wages. Competent ames however (like competent hockey players) have no need to sell themselves or their trade at bargain basement prices.
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azimuthaviation
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Re: Encore AME jobs

Post by azimuthaviation »

Stumper wrote:Competent ames however (like competent hockey players) have no need to sell themselves or their trade at bargain basement prices.
So the AME's working at Encore aren't competent? You think the folks at Encore decided that they got the best value for their dollar by hiring incompetent mx staff as opposed to paying an extra few dollars an hour for competent staff? An airline can operate with incompetent staff just as well as with guys who know what theyre doing? Is that the case? Or is the case that Encore does not realize that it is hiring guys who dont know what theyre doing? I guess they have a lot to learn about running a business.
Troubleshot wrote:look at this link...do you think you cannot do this job?
I guess I could. Should I apply? Can I use you as a reference? Tell them you recruited me and we will split the $1000 referral bonus. 70/30 of course, since youre clearly way better off financially than I am. I can finally stick it to all the people who told me I wont get anywhere in life with my attitude. They will have to eat their words when they find out I made it to Halkirk, Alberta.
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Last edited by azimuthaviation on Sun Mar 30, 2014 4:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
NeverBlue
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Re: Encore AME jobs

Post by NeverBlue »

I know who troubleshot is;
...well that changes everything Stump
Competent ames however (like competent hockey players) have no need to sell themselves or their trade at bargain basement prices.
Thank you...but aviation is on it's way out remember...we'll all be "beaming" ourselves and our cargo around the planet using wind power before you know it. :lol:

...and the word is "whore"...you should read more
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Re: Encore AME jobs

Post by NeverBlue »

haha you can make the internet say what ever want by the way you arrange your words in Google
...this is pretty funny though

"Neverblue is King of the world"

I'm going to try that one next...

:D
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Re: Encore AME jobs

Post by Troubleshot »

NeverBlue wrote:http://business.financialpost.com/2014/ ... =6b3c-5fb2
 you feel entitled to try tell me how it is
I'm not trying to tell you anything...I didn't write those articles
http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=27334
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NeverBlue
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Re: Encore AME jobs

Post by NeverBlue »

Amazing...I was just thinking about that
You must have seen Survivorman's Bigfoot episodes #1 & #2

I'm an evolutionist ...are you the Noah's Ark type?...you know a creationist?
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Re: Encore AME jobs

Post by Fling Wing »

azimuthaviation wrote:
Fling Wing wrote:And people wonder why the pay in this industry is on a down hill slope...^^^^^^


I guess cause of guys like this undercutting wages cause they think working on aircraft is cool:
Fling Wing wrote:not all of us do this for the money, there's guys like me who have a sense of adventure, like to travel ect. I'm quite happy getting paid to travel around the world working on helicopters, it sure doesn't pay the best, but for the amount of work that's required, and the experiences I've had, and the schedule I have, I'm pretty happy. I think I'll take the mind full of memories over the bank account full of money when I'm old.
Ya, geeze, you got be there mr.... but I still think helicopters are cool, and I still like the job, better yet, I found out the pay goes above $24 an hr when you get your license, that's the flight pay on top of the day rate btw. Like I said, bank won't be full, but it sure won't be empty either.
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Stumper
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Re: Encore AME jobs

Post by Stumper »

azimuthaviation wrote:
Stumper wrote:Competent ames however (like competent hockey players) have no need to sell themselves or their trade at bargain basement prices.
So the AME's working at Encore aren't competent? You think the folks at Encore decided that they got the best value for their dollar by hiring incompetent mx staff as opposed to paying an extra few dollars an hour for competent staff? An airline can operate with incompetent staff just as well as with guys who know what theyre doing? Is that the case? Or is the case that Encore does not realize that it is hiring guys who dont know what theyre doing? I guess they have a lot to learn about running a business
Encore is deliberately testing the lower threshold of what the ame market will bare. The industry is watching; if encore is successful expect downward pressure on wages across the board. We're the ones that need to learn about business..
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Re: Encore AME jobs

Post by Pat Richard »

Exactly. That's why it's so asinine to defend either encore or the sellouts they currently employ.

People who bring up "cheap flight" and "profit sharing" as a justifiable defense for this situation are seriously delusional and contributing to the ongoing race to the bottom.

No AME of worth, who is in full possession of their faculties, would try to lipstick up this pig of a situation that is encore to a group of AME's in person. But, on the internet, rambling, off topic drifting replies apparently, in some peoples minds, make for solid rebuttals.

I wonder what would happen if one of the pro encore internet supporters got up on a soapbox, in person, in either a AME watering hole, lunch room, or better yet an employee parking lot, and chanted the same stupidity I read on here defending encore.

Pretty sure I know how that would play out... :lol:

Majority would rule, with a reasonable chance of chiclets.
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NeverBlue
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Re: Encore AME jobs

Post by NeverBlue »

That's why it's so asinine to defend either encore or the sellouts they currently employ.
First of all...I'm not "pro Encore"...I'm pro choice, for lack of a better term.

Secondly...who the hell do you think you are telling anyone that works for Encore they're a sell-out? Nobody is required to have YOUR interest at heart.
Some people can afford to work at that wage...and some can't afford not to. It's still they're choice not yours and nobody has to justify it to YOU!
I wonder what would happen if one of the pro encore internet supporters got up on a soapbox, in person, in either a AME watering hole, lunch room, or better yet an employee parking lot, and chanted the same stupidity I read on here defending encore.
Who says anyone has to do that? Why would anyone do that?...for You??? HA!

This is not a union and bullying people is not part of the culture at Encore or most of the AMOs, FTUs, or Manufacturing Companies in Canada.
It's people like you that is the reason unions are being phased out in this country...companies closing up and putting hundreds and thousands out of work...moving somewhere else so they don't have to deal with people like YOU.
in either a AME watering hole, lunch room, or better yet an employee parking lot,
You are the one living in a dream Richard. You've been caught up in that kind of culture for so long you believe it's that way everywhere. You are so misguided it's funny. THAT DOESN'T WORK ANYMORE! Where has it got YOU??

Wake up!
Majority would rule, with a reasonable chance of chiclets.
No it wouldn't rule. It doesn't work that way anymore. It would only get somebody arrested and thrown in jail.

You can threaten violence all you like...I'll still do what I want...it's a free country remember? Maybe you should go back to high school and learn what "freedom" means

...along with when to use "a" and when to use "an"
Encore is deliberately testing the lower threshold of what the ame market will bare.
sure they are...they have all the time and money in the world to waste figuring that out eh?...cause it's AMEs that really rule the industry right?

You're so F*$#king full of yourselves.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Encore AME jobs

Post by Troubleshot »

NeverBlue,

I think you are the wrong guy to be "fighting the fight"...You claim you are making $40/HR Plus, all day shifts, etc... which is fine and if you have built your career to achieve that you deserve it...However, for the next generation of AME's and Pilots the bar is being set much, much lower. I haven't made $24/HR in 14 years...and people are telling me here on this thread that there are guys at Encore that have 10+years experience...to Stumpers point many other companies see this standard and question their own wage ..how low can we go.. (B scales, mass lay-offs re-hire at lower wages, etc...)

It is not like the market or "supply and demand" will dictate wages either...we have all seen the bigger players start to send their maintenance to foreign AMO's or hiring seasonal temporary foreign pilots.

Again, $24/HR is lowering the bar and no matter how Encore will try and dress it up it is still a crappy wage. I know you say you are pro choice (which is fine) but I think I can speak for most when we say we are "pro-industry" and from our stand point the big picture looks grim with Encore coming into the fold. Of Course Encore have produced jobs... low paying jobs. Sometimes there need to be "stepping-stone" type of operators, these stepping-stone operations used to be small operations, pilots and AME's would build experience and then sometimes move on, been like that forever...BUT, with a company like WestJet Encore we have now taken the "stepping-stone" model to a national level in my opinion. This will only warp the wages in Canada if Encore gets big enough.
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Re: Encore AME jobs

Post by crazy_aviator »

Encore is a turbo-prop start-up, competing with jazz and others, wisdom would say that they start lean, mean and efficient so that they can gain a foothold against jazz/ air canada and grow BEFORE the legacy costs hit them (like mainline westjet) if i were in mgmt, i would do the same and btw, mainline looks like they are taking care of their own 8)
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Re: Encore AME jobs

Post by Troubleshot »

crazy_aviator wrote:Encore is a turbo-prop start-up, competing with jazz and others, wisdom would say that they start lean, mean and efficient so that they can gain a foothold against jazz/ air canada and grow BEFORE the legacy costs hit them (like mainline westjet) if i were in mgmt, i would do the same and btw, mainline looks like they are taking care of their own 8)

I am not questioning Encores motives, pretty easy to see what that is. Don't fool yourself, Encore will never even come close to WestJet Main in any regard...Encore won't even come close to Porter.
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Re: Encore AME jobs

Post by Pat Richard »

- neverblue

I don't see anywhere in my post where Im making threats to anybody specific or where Im demanding any type of action from others to appease my condition of superiority. The latter is pure you.
Im saying I've never heard anyone, in person, beak off about how encore is a good deal for AME's. 100% the opposite. Possible there is an internet hero among them, but no one has had the huevos in person. Wonder why...

Funny you took the post as mostly directed towards you. Don't know if that's your ego leading you again or.....wait....
long winded rambling replies...yeah...now I see why... :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Encore AME jobs

Post by NeverBlue »

but I think I can speak for most when we say we are "pro-industry" 
:shock:
YOU are pro industry???...YOU are pro industry???
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Lowering the bar?
Please...tell me what the starting wage is at Air Canada or Jazz or United or American ( in Canada of course)...no matter how much experience you have.
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Re: Encore AME jobs

Post by Troubleshot »

Calm down....you are completely missing the point. No secret I am not a fan of aviation maintenance and the direction is going. When I say pro-industry I am speaking in general terms (as in overall health). I have an issue with the trend I am seeing and that is what am saying. Turns out when ever I comment on aviation here I have to defend my current industry. I feel I have pretty good perspective having worked in multiple industries and can draw on experience and facts.


I'll leave the Air Canada and Jazz wages for someone else to comment on, but I know it is a lot better than $24/hr. When I started at Porter in 2008 I was making $30/hr and was making $33/hr when I left.
Don't know any AME 's that work for united or American in Canada...only guys I know working on those birds were Wright International in YYZ
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Re: Encore AME jobs

Post by azimuthaviation »

Pat Richard wrote:No AME of worth, who is in full possession of their faculties, would try to lipstick up this pig of a situation that is encore to a group of AME's in person. But, on the internet, rambling, off topic drifting replies apparently, in some peoples minds, make for solid rebuttals.

I wonder what would happen if one of the pro encore internet supporters got up on a soapbox, in person, in either a AME watering hole, lunch room, or better yet an employee parking lot, and chanted the same stupidity I read on here defending encore.
Are you serious?!?! You think going up to someone and saying they have a good job is fighting words, that most dare only say online? And you are talking about AME's in full possession of their faculties?? I swear Im arguing with a bunch of crazy people...

By the way if after the end of a full shift you have enough energy to go picking fights in the parking lot, you havent worked hard enough that day. Maybe thats why you havent been able to make a go of this job?
Fling Wing wrote: Like I said, bank won't be full, but it sure won't be empty either.
You cant take back what you already said. Somehow its fine and dandy for you to take a job that pays less because you enjoy it, thereby undercutting the rest of us in this industry but you judge the guys at Encore because why? You didnt drop the bar as low as they did? Did it ever occur to you that they may enjoy working on Q400's as much as you like working on helis? Or do you even care? As long as youre happy settling you dont mind every other AME having to settle for less as you chase your ridiculous helicopter fixing dreams? Either way, I dont think youre in much position to comment.
Troubleshot wrote: haven't made $24/HR in 14 years...and people are telling me here on this thread that there are guys at Encore that have 10+years experience...to Stumpers point many other companies see this standard and question their own wage ..how low can we go.. (B scales, mass lay-offs re-hire at lower wages, etc...)
No I dont think so. You know the names of the other Dash-8 operators in YYC so I wont name them. Do you think they will attract anyone with 24 dollars an hour? They are having trouble retaining guys at 34 dollars an hour. Stressing and sweating for 12 hours straight trying to rectify a snag list half a mile long and get 20 planes, the "new" ones nearly clapped out, the old ones thirty years old or more, fixed and ready to fly by morning. Hey, theyre all hiring, the moneys there if you want it. If the guys at Encore dont like their wages, they only have to walk down the street. Since Encore has been around theyve hiked up their wage scale because they lost so many guys, kinda the opposite of what you guys are saying.
Troubleshot wrote:.we have all seen the bigger players start to send their maintenance to foreign AMO's
Right, how many commuter and charter airlines are going to do that? I dont think the local operators are going to overnight their commuters to Senegal for line maintenance. They will have to maintain their aircraft at their bases whether they like it or not (they probably dont) and if they dont want to hire maintenance staff, they wont be in business. Simple as that.
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