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 Post subject: Re: Encore AME jobs
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:53 am 
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These are standard AME wages.....relatively speaking they're fine. Now don't get me wrong, the going rate for an AME these days is appalling overall, however, Encore isn't really lowballing here.


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 Post subject: Re: Encore AME jobs
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 5:31 am 
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Pat Richard wrote:
He's the reason for this whole mess and I know of no one, in maintenance wrenching, that has ever had anything good to say about him, me included. His business plan is to compete with Greyhound with airplanes at the expense of the employee's.


Please qualify these statements? How is Greg's business plan at the expense of the employees? All the layoffs? Labour reductions? Pay cuts? Employee share plan rollbacks? Have you seen the business plan?

There certainly is no questioning that the Encore rollout didn't go smoothly for maintenance. The execs will be the first to admit it and they are interested in fixing things, which to me, is a refreshing change from the usual industry stance of "If you don't like it, leave."

This is a great place to work. It is a place thats working hard to engage it's employees in a positive, collaborative manner. It's not perfect, but it's entirely unique in this industry. It is unlike any other company I have ever worked for. The simple fact that a compensation committee was put together which consisted of AMEs illustrates this.



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 Post subject: Re: Encore AME jobs
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 12:18 pm 
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How is Greg's business plan at the expense of the employees?


Expecting aircraft to be signed out/maintained for under $25 a/hr. I thought this was obvious.

Ourkid - it is lowballing, particularly when taking into account some of the bigger center's where they expect people to live, not to mention it's 2014. But don't take my word for it. Look at the lack of response they've had. Not saying they are alone, but why strive to keep company with the likes of Kelowna Flightcraft($25-$32 a/hr) or Premier(max $25 a/hr)? Oh wait....they use both companies for maintenance...interesting. Also interesting that both are also having major problems attracting mechanics.

sparkfarmer - As for being a great place to work, maybe you could go into detail how making $25 a/hr in 2014 as a qualified trades person manages to come out as being great? You can skip any references to bosses buying you a $5 coffee, or giggly coworkers. I want to know how you manage after payday, do you drive to work, have you bought a house lately, etc. the info that would be relevant to anyone who would have to resettle because they took a new position at encore.

The part of this that is really sickening to me, and has been bothering me the most lately, is the fact that there are AME's actually supporting working for these shit wages(not just encore). Contracting is the same. Where you used(10 years ago) to get $35 a/hr,accommodation, $50 perdium, transportation to and from work, I now see offered an average of $40 a/hr, that's it, and some people are taking it, why? No pride? Desperate? What makes it even more peculiar is that there's a shortage, so you think supply and demand would apply, but I guess it only takes a minority to sink that situation.

All in all, a thoroughly depressing feeling when you look to the future of aviation maintenance, particularly when looking at other trades.

Pass the koolaide..



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 Post subject: Re: Encore AME jobs
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 12:21 pm 
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Glad to hear the guys working there like it, that's all that matters. There will always be places that pay more as a substitute for good working conditions but I think in the long run people tend to stay where they are happy, regardless of pay. So if Encore is making good working condition more of a priority then pay I think they and the employees will come out ahead in the long run. Of course no one knew the working conditions initially so I'm glad it worked out well for those that gambled on it.


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 Post subject: Re: Encore AME jobs
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 12:28 pm 
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I don't see how it's lowballing. Sure, the wages are garbage.......but the wages are garbage everywhere. No one pays well! If they were undercutting other operations, I would agree with you.


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 Post subject: Re: Encore AME jobs
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 12:36 pm 
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Quote:
Glad to hear the guys working there like it, that's all that matters. There will always be places that pay more as a substitute for good working conditions but I think in the long run people tend to stay where they are happy, regardless of pay.


no, that's not all that matters and all you are doing is trying to make excuses as to why they work for low wages.
why can't a place be good to work at and pay well? Why be satisfied with half? they are just helping lower the bar for ame wages. how can you not see that??? :roll: instead you support it.



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 Post subject: Re: Encore AME jobs
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 12:52 pm 
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Are you telling me that $24 a/hr is normal for signing out an airplane, particularly if you have previous experience? Not normal for me.

That was a new aca rate 20 years ago.

Isn't North Cariboo topping out at $38 a/hr for the right guy on the same types, in the same city?

A little more comparison with regards to YYC employment

Quote:
Brandell Diesel is a rapidly growing heavy truck repair shop with an exciting opportunity for the right mechanically inclined individual with strong supervisory and organization skills.

Who We Are
Our motto, common sense service – we take this seriously. Ownership has a strong background in service & maintenance and our goal is to be the best heavy truck shop in town. We started 2 years ago and have been steadily growing

We are now at the limit of our present facility
-Our facility – 8000 sq/ft shop (8-9 trucks)
-Complete selections of specialty tools and the latest diag software and hardware
-Shop Operating software – a user-friendly shop management program with computers at every workstation

Our shop staff- 8 technicians, 1 helper, 2 parts techs and 1 parts driver

Specialized Services - Heavy truck service and repair, In-frame overhauls, Extensive engine work, Custom tuning and emission refit systems, Agg & Off-Rad Equipment tuning, truck mounted crane service and repair.

Our Future – we are presently looking at a new facility better suited to the rapid growth we are experiencing.

We Offer
Competitive pay and benefit package including performance based bonus, along with profit share or shares in company.

$40-45.00/hr
$3000.00 Signing bonus, Holiday time negotiable
44hr weeks with OT avaliable
Paid Training
Tool allowance Yearly
Boot allowance Yearly
Full Benefits start when you do
Christmas Bonus
Gas cards
All expenses Paid Holiday After 2 years Employment
Offer 1000.00 bonus when you bring other skilled techs to the team

Email in your resume
Brandon@brandelldiesel.com



wonder if it's a good place to work at and if the boss buys coffee.

that's what really matters. :lol:



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 Post subject: Re: Encore AME jobs
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 1:25 pm 
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chowda wrote:
Quote:
Glad to hear the guys working there like it, that's all that matters. There will always be places that pay more as a substitute for good working conditions but I think in the long run people tend to stay where they are happy, regardless of pay.


no, that's not all that matters and all you are doing is trying to make excuses as to why they work for low wages.
why can't a place be good to work at and pay well? Why be satisfied with half? they are just helping lower the bar for ame wages. how can you not see that??? :roll: instead you support it.


Alright since we are dual income I am underestimating how much it matters to have a decent wage, and it did suck watching my electrician friend rapidly move up the pay scale every year as an apprentice while I was stuck sub 20. But I also recognize that when you have to choose between low paying job and no job there just isn't much choice. If we are going to fight for a wage increase the high time/well paid guys are going to lead the charge because the low paid, less experienced ones just don't have the option especially if you have a young family and didn't get into real estate early. I think the biggest thing we could do though is start telling new students how limited the employment and how poor the wage. The colleges pump out to many grads who are then kind of fk'd because they can't afford to go back for another 2 years of school. If it is possible to reduce government subsidies for those programs because of the lack of demand for graduates then we might actually make some progress.



Last edited by YYCAME on Fri Sep 19, 2014 1:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Encore AME jobs
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 1:25 pm 
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One of the earlier posts mentions that if you have previous experience, they will typically bring you in at Step 3. That's 27.14/hr according to the 2014 chart......if you're signing out work, then you'll have to be endorsed so that carries a 7% premium. If my math is correct, you will be at 29.04/hr not 24.

This is about right for a fairly new employee at a regional airline who is recently ACA'd. I'm NOT arguing that this is right, but it's the way it is. Perhaps North Cariboo is offering more, I am not sure and I hope that this is true. However, compared to just about everyone else out there including Air Canada, it's not a lowball in the regional market. As long as people continue to work for this money, it will be the going rate.

Like I said, I'm not happy about it either.



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 Post subject: Re: Encore AME jobs
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 1:36 pm 
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thats more along the lines of where im coming from, yycame. I figured you most likely are a dual income house, but even then depending on what the other half makes it could be really tough. I think quite likely it would be hard as a single new hire having to relocate. i guess the only part i dont get is having to take a low paying job like encore fixing airplanes. i know you can drive forklift, among other semi skilled positions, in calgary for at least as much so i dont know why any ame has no choice. i think its more scared to step away from what they know more than anything else. really dont see a appropriate reason other than being horny for westjet.


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 Post subject: Re: Encore AME jobs
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 1:46 pm 
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I think the real wage slowdowns in the industry are probably tied to the Air Canada layoffs and wage concessions indirectly. Then if you factor in unions being unable to use strike powers for our 'essential' service you get this trickle down effect from the big unionized places who were unable to maintain their current wage scales with inflation.

The reason people will take the low paying jobs is because they know only experience will get them ahead. Sure you can go drive a forklift or something but then you know you will never have a chance at a more interesting job and honestly for most people that would feel like just giving up.



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 Post subject: Re: Encore AME jobs
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 7:16 pm 
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Quote:
His business plan is to compete with Greyhound with airplanes at the expense of the employee's.


Without a doubt the most ignorant statement I've heard yet by you PR.
You really should go back to school and take an Economics course or something.

"at the expense of the employees"... :lol:



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 Post subject: Re: Encore AME jobs
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 12:29 am 
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Thank you!

So nice to hear from you, it's been too long.

Toodles



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 Post subject: Re: Encore AME jobs
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:00 am 
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:lol: ...and still the light is out...

alright here's something to think about Pat:

...NO AIRLINE COMPETING, NO EMPLOYEES!



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 Post subject: Re: Encore AME jobs
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 7:30 am 
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At Canadian North we just started an apprentice fresh from SAIT at $24hr.


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 Post subject: Re: Encore AME jobs
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:51 pm 
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Cariboo in YYC starts appies at ~19. Then 23 bucks after 6 months. Sugar coat it all you like, Encore is simply too cheap.

I know a couple folks working over there, mostly management types that got onboard from the get-go. They seem to be doing well....but I personally couldn't justify taking a 10+ dollar pay cut just to work on some new Qs and cheap trips to Grande Prairie....



Last edited by plhought on Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Encore AME jobs
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 6:49 am 
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Quote:
Cariboo in YYC starts appies at ~19.


Encore's lowest pay starts at $22.16...in Fredericton....with zero experience.

Now...compare the cost of living in Fredericton to Calgary


Quote:
management types that go onboard from the get-go.


...and another brilliant statement.

If you want to be a good successfull employee at a new company do not get "onboard" with their policies and goals from the get go, do not become a team player and do not aspire to become "management type"...

another head scratcher... :smt017



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 Post subject: Re: Encore AME jobs
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:24 am 
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I don't mean the term "management types" to be derogatory, these are individuals who were very much involved in the whole development of the maintenance operation and came straight from actually turning wrenches at other outfits to the then unnamed regional operation. I'm not sure where ya get this idea that you have to be a sour employee and strive to not be involved in the company. I'm not encouraging that at all. I'm just saying that the higher floor and management positions seem to be pretty well remunerated, but the standard ACA position wage still seems a little low.

Like I said above, Cariboo brings the apprentices up to 23 after six months. Yes 19 sucks at first fair enough.

How many apprentices has Encore hired in Fredericton since it's inception? True fresh-out-of-school types? I would be comfortable hazarding a guess of zero.

In fact I would be surprised if Encore had even hired any true apprentices in Calgary either. I imagine there's some pretty experienced non-ACA individuals hired...but I wouldn't really classify them as apprentices.



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 Post subject: Re: Encore AME jobs
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:56 pm 
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Quote:
How many apprentices has Encore hired in Fredericton since it's inception? True fresh-out-of-school types? I would be comfortable hazarding a guess of zero.


Then why are you using Cariboo apprentice wages as your argument against Encore???

Quote:
Like I said above, Cariboo brings the apprentices up to 23 after six months. Yes 19 sucks at first fair enough.


If you make $3.16/ hr more for six months and then after 12 months get a raise to $24.16 an Encore junior mechanic is still making more than a Caroboo apprentice.



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 Post subject: Re: Encore AME jobs
PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 8:31 am 
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Enough with making it personal.
Bandaid.



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 Post subject: Re: Encore AME jobs
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:01 pm 
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I understand there were some layoffs at North Cariboo. Does anyone know if they were apprentices or licensed AMEs? Endorsed on anything? Was it the "bottom of the list" who were let go? For anyone who is looking, Encore has posted some pretty good positions lately, like Airworthiness Manager and Inspector Crew Lead, and is hiring. We are still in growth mode and adding several new airplanes this year. We are also expanding East and looking for AMEs in Toronto. Check out the postings on westjet.com under great jobs at the bottom of the page.


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 Post subject: Re: Encore AME jobs
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:50 am 
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Don't know where you are getting your info but there has been no layoff's as of today at North Cariboo. Does Encore pay better then U.I?


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 Post subject: Re: Encore AME jobs
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:03 am 
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Pretty good source for the information on layoffs.

Before I can comment on the Encore pay vs EI, I would need way more information. What is the pay rate for an NC apprentice? AME? AME with single endorsement? AME with dual endorsement? I had the information a couple years ago and don't imagine it's changed significantly. I know it used to top at about $44 after 12 years for an AME with two endorsements.
What is a person on EI paid?

Whether working at Encore at perhaps a reduced rate is better than EI is a decision for the AME to make. NC being tied to camp charters means they are a bit challenged right now. Encore is in growth mode and, with a history at WJ of no layoffs, even during slow economic times, there are great opportunities for growth and opportunity. You also have the option to move to WJ for expanded opportunities.



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 Post subject: Re: Encore AME jobs
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:47 am 
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NCA rates as follows:

Apprentice: $18.54 - $22.76
AME single endorsement: $25.00 - $43.00
dual endorsed: $27.00 - $44.00
+ $1.00 Lead Hand, +$2.00 for Crew Chief.



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 Post subject: Re: Encore AME jobs
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:43 pm 
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How many steps in each scale for each position? That's important to know.

It seems to me from what I saw, it takes about 10 years to reach the top step? That strategy is better for the employer. Reaching the top step in fewer years is better for the employee.

General compensation philosophy in the aviation business means a comparison is done with other similar operators. Some companies compare every step, some compare the top step and the bottom step, and fill in the steps in between. As you are probably aware, aviation has been struggling to compete on wages with other "Red Seal" type trades and with the demise of airline operators in Canada and the competitive nature of our industry, it has historically been a real challenge to get compensation increased significantly.

I just found the information I have on NC pay. It looks like the rates have not changed since 2012.
It would take 15 years with a license to reach the top step and the only increases have been to the bottom of the apprentice scale and to the Crew Chief premium.

I will be posting what I can in regards to Encore pay scales later.



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