Aircraft Maintenance Engineer Category 'M' BCIT

[jay2x]

I'm looking to get into AME - M

This is the progrma I'm looking forward to taking:
http://www.bcit.ca/study/programs/1010dipts#overview

I want to know real life information about this program.

I've taken a program in BCIT before, but it was a bunch of mishap / misfire instructors that does not show up. It was in the field of New Media Design and Web development.

I understand that it differs from program to program, but these instructors are pre-screened for credibility?

....turning the rant off now..


I'm scraping the goal of taking the AME-B2 (avionics) and just take AME-M instead.

Has anyone taken this program?

IF yes, Is it a hard / manageable course?

What is the outlook for AME-E these coming years?

Should I just go in trades?

Would really love some input!

[longjon]

Did you read the first two posts ?

[jay2x]

Did you read the first two posts ?

No... I'll read ty

[arcticheliwrench]

I graduated from the BCIT AME-M program in 2006. So my info may be out of date but here you go:

1. Instructors were mostly those that were 5 to 10 years away from retirement. This was great for passing on experience but also there was a flip side of not being so up to date on the state of the current job scene.

2. The course work and practical stuff is easy. You really have to be super lazy or just dumb to not do well.

3. You could tell in the first couple weeks who would do well and get a job amongst your classmates. Those who were mechanically minded, possessed a good work ethic and actually held down jobs before school (aviation or otherwise) as well as actually had an interest in learning, ALL ended up working and being quite happy (about half of my class). Those who were there because they couldn't get into UBC Engineering and simply wanted to please their parents at least somehow, but were just not cut out for the gig: guess what? - did poorly and never ended up working in the field. This failure to find work was really simply a failure to actually go out and look for it.

4. School gives you a piece of paper. It is a hoop to jump through. YOU go out and get what's yours. You want to work for an airline? Hunt down whatever you can get working on jets a go from there. Helicopters? Drive into the bush and keep going and scrape up that first apprentice job. General aviation - knock on hangar doors till someone gives you the time of day.

[acidgambit]

AME-M and AME-E are alright.
Don't go into structures. Unless you're planning to work in an overhaul shop then go ahead. Mind you there isn't much out there.

The industry is usually looking for AME-M and E people. The M people does all the mechanical work and some avionics work. The E people does all the basic and specialized avionics work.

I graduated from BCIT in 08 from the M program. I agree with arcticheliwrench. If you're not a dummy, you should be able to pass. The hardest part I found in the M course was the electrical part. Most of my classmates (myself included) barely pass the electrical part.

If you're thinking of taking the program just to get that piece of diploma, well go for it. But it won't do much for ya. There was a couple of guys that did that in my class and it didn't do jack for them.
Are you mechanically minded? If not, don't take the course. You'll have difficulties figuring out how a piston and turbine engine work. Being book smart in the program is not everything also. Knowing how to use your tools and having common sense will help you pass the practical part.

The school part is the easy stuff. Finding a job after graduation is where the challenge begins. If you're only willing to work in warm places or not willing to relocate, you're doomed.

One more thing, if you think you're going to get rich by being an aircraft mechanic. Forget about it. You'll have a decent life, but you won't become a millionaire.

The places that usually pays the most are usually helicopter companies and a few airlines.

Average pay for a current apprentice is around 15 to 25 dollars/hour
Average pay for a current engineer with an endorsement course ranges from 25 to 45 dollars/hour

Good luck.

[brownbear]

25 an hour for apprentices and 45 an hour for AMEs is really freaking rare. Like not likely.

Expect 15-20 for apprentice. 20 being you've done 3 years with them. Expect 23-25 first year AME. Sometimes lower. Expect 30-34 an hour as an AME after a few years, maybe 5. Expect 38-40 as a crew chief. Expect 45 when your chief engineer or DOM.

If your after a good trade, I'd look at other trades too. If you love planes and have been around them a little go work on planes.

Lots of grads from BCIT. Kinda feels like a puppy mill. Have a look at some other colleges too. Not that BCIT is bad, but... you're not any different than the other 100 grads hitting the resumes. Keep in mind the college is a business. They know they are flooding the market. Its hard to get a job.

[brownbear]

To add to my first line about the rare thing. Up north you get these wages easily enough, but the cost of living matches them. So really you are not making great money up north compared to the other trades up there.

I do think E people are little more in demand, as there are so many M apprentices.

[NeverBlue]

Kinda feels like a puppy mill

It always bothers me when people say this. It's not the college's job to limit the amount of grads it puts out. It's all about supply and demand. People choose and pay to go to college...they're not forced to go and take the course.

It is a business...but they wouldn't be in business unless there was demand for their product...and their product is simply a diploma not puppies.

You should see the amount of graduates with general arts and science degrees from the universities...what do they get with that?

[BTyyj]

Agreed, Neverblue. I personally find the idiom "puppy mill" is too widely used on these forums simply because a given program has many graduates . The colleges are providing a service that the students have evidently chosen to use and therefore spend their own money towards. If it's a good program that gains a lot of interest, they'll have many students entering therefore graduating each year. The more the better for them. That's how these colleges make their money after all.

science degrees from the universities...what do they get with that?

Have you ever heard of STEM fields? Individuals with degrees in CS, math, physics, actuarial sciences, biophysics, chemistry, etc., are generally very much in demand in the job market upon graduation. Even engineering is technically just an applied science.

[NeverBlue]

Agreed,
Generally most applied degrees are in demand...it's the general 3 year degrees that I was referring to.
I know a few Phd's in math and physics that can't seem to find a job in today's economy though.
...and we always have engineering grads trying to get their time in with us...they usually don't stick around long and require constant babysitting.
...they never seem to understand the "real life application" of what they're designing or implementing.

[tellyourkidstogetarealjob]

.

[NeverBlue]

They must make enough to justify their existance. The funding gets cut almost yearly and all colleges across Canada have been forced into partnerships with universities and industry in order to survive. Tuitions are constantly on the rise along with fees and other costs because of funding cuts

They are definitely a business just like hospitals and most of their mandates have growth in them. They have to justify every new program not existing ones that turn a profit...if they don't cover costs they're cut...end of story.

I believe it's been 4 years since BCIT has run the Structures program.

Many taxpayers have an issue with medical system user fees, hydro costs, giving bailouts to Chrysler etc...what's your point?

EDIT...Sorry, this post doesn't make sense anymore because previous post was removed...

[Dibbley]

I would not consider going the 'M' route in this day and age - I am speaking from the perspective of 30 years in the industry plying my trade from the 'M' side of things. An 'E' ticket is much more marketable and is easier on your body as you approach the final years in the workforce. From what I am hearing, the recent 'M' class intakes at BCIT have been cancelled due to lack of applicants - this shows you that things are not as rosy in the real world of aviation and word is getting out. We have many applicants from the graduating classes that show up at the Manager's office door, looking for the glimmer of hope which would be their foot in the door of this very cyclic industry. My read is that we are heading toward staff reductions.

[747-875]

I took the AME M program at BCIT about five years ago now. Looking back on it, it would seem that the same thing applies (or at least applied) as with many areas of aviation - it's all what you make of it.

I can definitely understand where the "puppy mill" thing comes from, but I also think it's not quite right. There was definitely a lot of kids who where only there because the family said pick a school and the brochure for this one looked cool. A couple of them were somehow able to graduate despite it being obvious that they had no idea what was going on in the shop. They were book smart, but by the end of the course I wouldn't have trusted them to check the tire pressures on my car let alone fix transport category airplanes. On the other hand, there were several kids in my course who didn't know a heck of a lot about airplanes on day one, but they were there because they wanted to be there, they showed up ready and interested, they took the time to notice what was happening around them, they figured out which way to turn the wrench, and they've since done quite well for themselves. I can't entirely blame the school for this either, as earlier posters mentioned the school is just a business offering a service, nobody is forcing people to go take it. The reason so many people go through there is because that's how many people woke up one morning and said hey I should go there, not because that's how many "puppies" the industry asked the school to provide. More students = more money, so anyone with common sense would know the school is always going to try and say sign here and it'll all turn out just peachy.

The program itself was good in a lot of ways but you have to be careful in a lot of other ways. Most of the teachers were on the home stretch to retirement, so they had lots of good stories and advice to share, but much of it was somewhat outdated. It's still useful advice, but just remember to take it for what it's worth, and nothing more or less. As far as the actual facilities and projects, just remember that the real world (what I've seen of it anyway) doesn't really follow anything like that. Take it as your learning how to learn about fixing airplanes, and not as a straight this is how you'll be doing it, and you'll do fine. If you know anything at all about aircraft and are at least a little bit mechanically inclined, you should do fine. I found the electrical section to be a little tough, but it's still doable. Any average mechanically minded person who pays attention and reads the books should have no trouble pulling off 80s and 90s for most of it.

If you are good at E type work, I would also say go run with that. Up in these parts M guys come and go all the time, but a good E guy is worth his weight in gold. A decent worker with both an E and an M is definitely the one you want to hire first and fire last. That's not to say there isn't M work though. You might not get exactly what you wanted, but if your willing to run with whatever adventures come next (as long as your not completely screwing yourself over), there's still opportunities out there to do well. Realistically if your a good worker with some common sense in your head, it's not that hard to find M work where you can expect about 15-20 as an apprentice and 30-35 once you get an ACA stamp. It's your career, so it's all what you make of it....

[NeverBlue]

Well said

[Pat Richard]

From what I am hearing, the recent 'M' class intakes at BCIT have been cancelled due to lack of applicants - this shows you that things are not as rosy in the real world of aviation and word is getting out.

How is this possible for such a fantastic industry?

[NeverBlue]

BCIT has an intake every 8 weeks...and a graduation every 8 weeks.

no big deal...lots of "puppies" available.

[chowda]

i remember when they used to have an almost 2 year waiting list to get in

[NeverBlue]

Everybody gets put on a waiting list when they apply.

They're taken off the waiting list when they are contacted and either accept or decline.

All students select three programs during their college application process I believe so those wait list numbers are bogus anyways and I know that BCIT used to tell everyone that applies they are waitlisted.

what is your point anyways?

too many grads?...not enough grads?...the amount of applications is directly related to the state of the industry?

[all_ramped_up]

i remember when they used to have an almost 2 year waiting list to get in

same. i applied to BCIT in 2002 and was told there was a wait that long.

12 years later at NSCC there's still open seats for M, E and S.