AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

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Dash 27
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AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

Post by Dash 27 »

Why are AME wages so low? Why do the benefits suck so bad? Why do we put up with so much BS from Transport Canada? Why are we not a "Red Seal" trade?

As far as I can tell, good experience is dying off in the industry. No companies are willing to pay wages that can compete with other industries. Transport Canada with their SMS is costing companies so much in money and BS that it's a headache for all involved.

We as AME's are the backbone of an operation and all we do is take shit from every direction. We're trapped because our skills are not transferable to other trades and in order to switch careers we have to give up everything we've worked so hard for and start from scratch.

Why do we let this continue... Is there not a way we can force a pay increase across the industry? A way to force the gov't to recognize us as a "Red Seal" trade? A way to give incentive to the experienced ones and new blood to stay in the industry instead of dropping it to go do any menial job in Alberta that pays double with speaking English as the only prerequisite and zero responsibility?

We need to figure out how to change this... Bring on the comments and ideas!!
AME's unite!!
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FrozenWrench
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

Post by FrozenWrench »

I can only really comment as to the red seal trades part because that I know a little bit more about. I have asked about this to the people that manage the red seal trades and one of the biggest comments I have gotten back is that there must be a demand from the industry to be recognized as one. The person also said that there is not that much of a push from AME's to join the red seal trades. When asking around I noticed that not too many people, at least that I have asked, are interested in this.
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DonutHole
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

Post by DonutHole »

Trades are provincial in delivery, aviation is federal.
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helicopterray
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

Post by helicopterray »

We don't need Red Seal.

Red Seal allows trades people to work between provinces, as trade certificates are issued by provinces.

AME licenses are issued by the Federal government so we can work between provinces anyways.

Wages aren't increasing because tariffs aren't increasing. Because there's too many operators chasing too little work, so to get what little work is out there, they undercut each other.
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azimuthaviation
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

Post by azimuthaviation »

helicopterray wrote:there's too many operators chasing too little work
What are you talking about? Its busier now than its been since Ive known it. Most AME's now are getting to choose which jobs they want, customers are getting pushed away. If youre a good, experienced AME in the summer of 2014, you've probably never had it better. Or am I way off?
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Dash 27
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

Post by Dash 27 »

My point with the Red Seal aspect is that their training is recognized. If they wanted to change trades, they're given credit for applicable courses, their time for apprenticeship is prorated, it's interchangeability I'm talking about. We don't have that luxury.
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13820
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

Post by 13820 »

AME skills transfer easily to other jobs. If you want out of aviation then there is the door. Lots of people where I work are off to parallel jobs in oil and gas. A Red Seal designation will get you nowhere, just more paperwork. Your TC AME license is already recognized by other employers for it's skills.
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ramp_rat
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

Post by ramp_rat »

If you think you are underpaid, time to move on! I also think, if you are licensed with experience, you have a bit of choice, and if you are avionics, even more choices! Big planes, big profit, good wages! Little planes, little profit, little wages!

And still remember about ten years ago, I met an AME who challenged the millwright exam, passed it, and ended up at TTC. Haven't seen him since!
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ourkid2000
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

Post by ourkid2000 »

ramp_rat wrote: Big planes, big profit, good wages! Little planes, little profit, little wages!
Uggh, you must be joking.
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chowda
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

Post by chowda »

Some people think around 30 bucks a hour is big money. problem is most of them are in aviation. everybody else that hears that thinks its crazy with most thinking it was closer to fifty a hour. have had that happen to me many times in the past. I think as long as some think that its big money it will be really hard to get any unity.
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Dash 27
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

Post by Dash 27 »

Thank you chowda.

My company employs an auto mechanic to take care of the ground support equipment and tugs, he had chats with engineers other than myself about wages. He informed me one day that he easily makes at least 40% more annually than the 5 year license holder who gave up his wage info to this guy. He laughed in amazement that AME's got paid so little.

What's wrong with that? You can pull over when your car breaks down... We've all heard that one.
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helicopterray
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

Post by helicopterray »

What are you talking about? Its busier now than its been since Ive known it. Most AME's now are getting to choose which jobs they want, customers are getting pushed away. If youre a good, experienced AME in the summer of 2014, you've probably never had it better. Or am I way off?
Helicopter side of things.
Yes, it's busy for myself as an experienced AME, but the wages aren't going up.
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

Post by Pat Richard »

Have to say fixed wing side is the same - busy, wages stagnated in the low 30's a/hr for most payroll guys, and crying that there's "no experienced guys out there.". Contract wages from agencies are actually the same, which is hilarious. I see them constantly trying to repackage the same shitty amounts into looking more attractive. I think quite honestly, in aircraft maintenance, you are better off being payroll than contract. For the extra 5-7 bucks an hour you "make" the agencies now expect you to provide your accommadations, perdiums, and transportation.

Total joke.
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

Post by Taiser »

I got out in the early 90's. As much as I loved twisting wrenches I could only take so much changing jugs on Otters and Beavers in 35c heat in the middle of nowhere with nothing but mosquitoes to keep me company. I lucked out and got a career change that lets me live comfortably. I know for a fact from buddies that still work in the field that not much has changed. Some have done fairly well by sticking with one company and climbing the ranks but topping out at 60-70k or so a year still don't cut it in my book... :( Not for the responsibility you have for signing off on a plane.

I think it's even worse for pilots! I remember dudes flying for free and staying in fleabag rooms in Sioux Lookout just to build hours!!! Not sure if that still goes on but that would SUCK big time! :shock:
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Ricktye
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

Post by Ricktye »

Check out shop rates in aviation compared to vehicles or heavy equipment shop rates. Operators are keeping shop rates low to under cut the next guy. Low shop/tariff rates seems to equal low wages .... Go figure!
helicopterray wrote:We don't need Red Seal.

Red Seal allows trades people to work between provinces, as trade certificates are issued by provinces.

AME licenses are issued by the Federal government so we can work between provinces anyways.

Wages aren't increasing because tariffs aren't increasing. Because there's too many operators chasing too little work, so to get what little work is out there, they undercut each other.
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

Post by planemikey »

News of the employment scene in the US is that they have returned to the unemployed rate before the 2007-08 downturn / recession . Only problem is people are making 25% less now .

In Canada we make on average less that we did in 1990 when you factor in cost of living and decreased value of our currency.

Supply and demand seems to be the only thing that changes the numbers .
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

Post by helicopterray »

Supply and demand seems to be the only thing that changes the numbers
In theory, but in reality, the supply side gets skewered by Temporary Foreign Workers.
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

Post by azimuthaviation »

TFW's are good for the business owner, bad for the worker. No wonder they exploded since the conservatives came to power, but even now they had to take a step back and deal with the frankenstein they created. (to be fair they didnt create it, but it was greatly expanded and deregulated under their watch) For instance its great if youre a landscaper or general contractor or run a retail business. If you can hire ten TFW's at a lower rate, and have better retention (they are thought of as indentured servants by some employers) then you can make more profit off their production. However that wasnt what the program was put in place for. It wasnt intended to supply discounted labour for business owners, it was intended to fill the shortage of skilled labour that was hurting the economy and slowing production. Now I hear people who want to start businesses and they start by saying "I'll bring in some Filipinos" or "I'll find some cheap TFW's" They already built the cost of cheap labourers into their business plan...

helicopterray wrote:Yes, it's busy for myself as an experienced AME, but the wages aren't going up.
Yeah, cant argue with that. I have no trouble keeping busy but Ill probably gross in 2014 as much as I did in 2010 and with inflation, put less in the bank. Seems wages take a little jump, stagnate or back off for a few years, jump again and stagnate for a few years again. If you chart the trend, it doesnt keep pace with inflation for very long if at all.
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brownbear
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

Post by brownbear »

it's a dog eat dog industry. I love planes, can't handle the industry.

As an AME you have people around you value your skill, like the pilots, and fellow AMEs. The managers who work the money have to keep out the emotional aspect and drive the company lean, including wages for the AME. So you don't get valued just used.

I had to leave. I'd like to do it on my own terms in future. But will see how it goes.

Low 30's doesn't get you much in life. No new boats, no fancy house or new car etc. It gets you an apartment and some gas money in a city and small house in a town. Pay check to pay check.

I'd start looking at other trades, and see how they compare. It took me 5 years to get my AME licence (stevenson), 11 exams and 4 type courses later, and numerous other training courses I never struck it comfortable after 18 years. You hate to give it up, but you have to get ahead some time, don't make it too late. I even sat in management and the money still sucked. Sure I made a bit over 43, but to be a PRM that isn't enough either.
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

Post by Always_Learning »

so are there any operations in canada that pay well? in the states there is ups, southwest and a few more that pay well but are there any in canada?
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