AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

#76 Post by DonutHole » Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:14 pm

That corsair though.

And. . What the hell is an AMT? Are they worth less because they aren't a.m.e's?
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

#77 Post by Meecka » Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:37 am

conehead wrote:I've been visiting this forum for years now, and I think Meecka has had some of the crapiest employers around...
The guys up in Kenora were a good bunch. The operation was run fairly well too.

I'm in a sweet gig now :P
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

#78 Post by Meecka » Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:40 am

DonutHole wrote:That corsair though.

And. . What the hell is an AMT? Are they worth less because they aren't a.m.e's?
That Corsair took more of my blood than the doctor's office ever will! Big 'ol Blue Sow. She was interesting to work on though. Not many people can say they have radial experience, let alone a big'un like that one.

AMT I think, is being used to describe unlicensed guys. So in most operators eyes, yes they are worth less than AME's.
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

#79 Post by conehead » Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:40 pm

Meecka wrote:
conehead wrote:I've been visiting this forum for years now, and I think Meecka has had some of the crapiest employers around...
I'm in a sweet gig now :P
That's good to hear. :)
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

#80 Post by Jungle Jim » Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:45 pm

Guys,

Maybe the AME job needs to be viewed as a transitional job to better things? We had an ex forces helicopter mechanic that came to us and worked a bit as a Millwright, wrote the test, easily passed and he was probably the best Millwright we have ever had until he retired. They say these days that the average professional will have 5 jobs in their working life and will experience 3 career direction changes in their working life time.

Jim
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

#81 Post by PT6_Nation » Tue Feb 17, 2015 7:04 pm

Aye, this thread really saddened me, when I enrolled at an ATO I didn't expect aviation to make me rich, but atleast provide a comfortable living, not these bread crumbs we easily stab each other in the back for. I'm now 3 years in the GA game, extremely close to being licensed, and my roommate makes what I do at Wal-Mart selling Emersion branded junk, without $20k of crippling student loans, 10k worth of tools, or responsibility. And his life ain't great either! But god, taking aircraft maintenance is starting to feel like one of the worst decisions I've ever made, better yet, management tells me "they'll take care of me" when I become licensed, but they don't care to pay me a livable wage now, why would they then? I don't know whether to write my CARS or go do something else, even if I move to a new city I'll be looking at $20/h tops! And what does that buy you? A tiny-assed apartment, bus fare, no spending money, pay check to pay check, for a licensed tradesman with a college degree? Common... This is a joke, I thought this was a step up from being a car mech...
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

#82 Post by Pat Richard » Sat Feb 21, 2015 12:29 pm

yep, thats what many experience.


wonder where the resident denialist is at to say "it must just be you."
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

#83 Post by NeverBlue » Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:58 am

...it must just be you.

3 years???? you expect to be making big money without a license and only 3 years experience???

yup...it's you...
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

#84 Post by DonutHole » Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:23 am

Who said anything about big money? We are talking a shade over wal-mart wages.

I personally believe that anybody on the shop floor should be making more than a walmart employee.

I have a question blew, what should he be making?
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

#85 Post by Meecka » Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:21 am

DonutHole wrote: I personally believe that anybody on the shop floor should be making more than a walmart employee.
I wholeheartedly agree with you here.
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

#86 Post by Heliian » Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:29 am

Just think, in 10 years at walmart.... oh wait, that's a shit go nowhere job.

If you think your life will be better with another career, then go for it and stop complaining here. Go back to university and rack up 60gs in debt and see what kind of job that lands you. NO job is guaranteed, NO inexperienced worker in any field is making good money.

There are less than 20,000 licensed AME's in Canada which include instructors and other license holders who don't actually wrench. It's easy to find work and the pay is always getting better AND there is usually advancement if you so desire.
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

#87 Post by TheAME » Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:57 pm

When I was in my last year of apprenticeship (2 1/2 years experience), I used to make 36575$/year, 10 hours nightshift on rotation 4-5-5 so I was working about 182 days/year, 1820 hours/year and this gives you the magic number of 20.10$/hour. I was working in Montreal (CYUL).
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

#88 Post by GyvAir » Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:05 pm

^ .... What year was that?
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

#89 Post by TheAME » Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:15 pm

May 2013
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

#90 Post by Pat Richard » Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:36 pm

Okay Ian, tell me where it is you see a AME "career" going?? From what I've seen and experienced, after one achieves a license what"s the fantastic progression? DOM? no thanks, first position to catch shit and average pay around 80g for a stress filled life. traveling and working overseas? Most I know go to the armpits of the world to do this, a couple were ok. Problem is no overseas tax credit and limited opportunities. I personally don't care to have the risk of being shot at, bombed, or kidnapped/killed in addition to wrenching as career progression.QA? maybe, but usually stuck between a rock and a hard place.
I see lots of guys in their late 50's early 60's, 30ish years experience, wrenching on airplanes 10-12 hours a day, nights, weekends, holidays, outside, etc, and they're not pumped that they are doing so. Never hear any of of them raving how good they got it or how great aviation maintenance is. Always the opposite. Oh, and making low to mid 30's an hour, either payroll or contract.
Something for the young guys to look fwd to.
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

#91 Post by helicopterray » Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:52 pm

When I was in my last year of apprenticeship (2 1/2 years experience), I used to make 36575$/year, 10 hours nightshift on rotation 4-5-5 so I was working about 182 days/year, 1820 hours/year and this gives you the magic number of 20.10$/hour. I was working in Montreal (CYUL).
May 2013
That's the money I made as a first year AME.
In 1990.
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

#92 Post by Troubleshot » Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:12 am

Jobs like this come up all of the time, two of my buddies (ex AME's) are already there.

http://ch.tbe.taleo.net/CH07/ats/career ... 1&rid=2087


Leading Gas Turbine Operator Technician

Location: Burnside
Posting Number: 2551-14NSP
Company: Nova Scotia Power Inc.
Department:
# of openings: 1
Type of Employment: Regular Full Time




Description


Nova Scotia Power’s greatest source of energy is our people. In a culture focused on safety, we’re committed to providing exceptional service to our customers and rewarding jobs to our employees. We’re hiring solution-minded people excited to help us grow into the future. We are currently looking to fill the position of Leading Gas Turbine Operator Technician.

Accountabilities: You will be an integral part of the Gas Turbine Team leading and directing a highly skilled work team on a daily basis. You will be responsible for directing and performing routine mechanical, electrical, controls, and instrumentation maintenance, repair and trouble shooting on Pratt & Whitney and General Electric Gas Turbines within the Province. You will be required to participate in competency based refresher training and other regulatory training. You must be willing to participate in on-the-job training or training programs that support the development of other skills in other trade disciplines that add value to the business.

You must be able to work effectively as a member of the Gas Turbine Work Team and with employees from other plant disciplines. You will organize and plan maintenance schedules, assist in parts sourcing and procurement, and be involved with initiatives to improve the Gas Turbine Group; You will also lead, direct, and coach other members of the team. You will be an integral member of Nova Scotia Power’s Team, working closely with the Energy Control Center, Customer Operations, other Power Generation groups, and various contractors

You will be responsible for your personal safety and that of your co-workers by observing all Occupational Health and Safety Rules and Regulations. You will be accountable for environmental performance as it relates to the environmental management system processes and initiatives.

Skills, Capabilities and Experience: You must have a Grade XII education or equivalent. In addition, you must possess a Certificate of Qualification as a Gas Turbine Attendant Operator or equivalent. You have strong oral and written communication skills and interact well with others, as well as demonstrated leadership capabilities. You have above average computer skills and are able to deal with multiple tasks and often changing demands. You must be willing to provide leadership and mentoring in Competency Based Training, relating to turbine systems and equipment.

You are self-motivated, adaptable to change and willing to work to contribute to the team environment and workplace. The successful candidate must possess a valid NS driver´s license as some travel throughout the Province is required. You will be required to locate your primary residence within approximately 30 minutes of the defined headquarters and your will be required to participate in a Standby rotation

Reports to: Supervisor, Wind Energy and Gas Turbines

Form of Application: Click the APPLY button at the end of the online job posting. Complete all required information fields, and copy and paste your covering letter and resume into the online form.

Salary: $38.35 per hour, as per the NSPI/IBEW Collective Agreement.

Must Be Received By: All interested candidates should apply no later than March 4, 2015.

Late applications may not receive consideration.

Recruitment and Promotion Policy: When filling vacant positions, we are determined to hire the best candidates available. We're committed to providing employees with a fair and equal opportunity to compete for jobs. Hiring and promotion of employees is based on skills, capabilities, knowledge and demonstrated abilities.

We value diversity in the workplace and strongly encourage applications from all qualified candidates including African Nova Scotians and other members of the visible minority community, Aboriginal peoples, persons with disabilities, and women in non-traditional roles.

Normally, unless otherwise requested in advance, the supervisors of internal candidates selected for an interview will be contacted in order to facilitate scheduling of the interviews. The supervisor will maintain the confidentiality of the employee's application
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

#93 Post by Heliian » Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:08 am

You can just have a look today in the jobs forum to see there are plenty.
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

#94 Post by Pat Richard » Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:55 am

Yeah, plenty of mediocre paying dead end jobs. nobody's arguing that. You talking about opportunities for advancement as being a big reason to be in aviation maintenance. From experience, the biggest advancement that most AME's crave is mon-fri day shift and 40+ an hour.
Unfortunate reality is that winning lottery tickets are about as common.
You dont ever notice how many of those ad's are repeats? Ever wonder why that is? A shortage you say?? Yeah, because this industry sucking is no secret.
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

#95 Post by Meecka » Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:38 am

TheAME wrote:When I was in my last year of apprenticeship (2 1/2 years experience), I used to make 36575$/year, 10 hours nightshift on rotation 4-5-5 so I was working about 182 days/year, 1820 hours/year and this gives you the magic number of 20.10$/hour. I was working in Montreal (CYUL).
Buddy, I would have been over the moon for that kind of pay as an apprentice. With roughly that much experience, I was making $13.00 an hour. I didn't get to $20.00 an hour until I got my license, and moved to a different company. The pay in this industry blows, and there may be some improvement, but man oh man is it slow coming.
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

#96 Post by Cat Driver » Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:51 pm

Aviation is the only career that I know of where the employees will work for slave wages because flying an airplane is seen by some as a superman occupation rather than a machine operator occupation.

And to make it even more mind boggling AME's are paid less than the machine operators ( also called pilots. )....

...does not make sense.

...It is ass backwards......

...wait a second, maybe that is what they like?
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

#97 Post by Pat Richard » Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:39 pm

Yeah it is, Cat. My feeling is it will most likely never change.
I don't think there will ever be enough difficulty to companies(finding good qualified AME's) that would push them in the direction to change conditions.They will exhaust every other possibility except that.
I was once told to my face by a dom that no AME should be making more than $35 a/hr. I personally believe he is far from the only one with that mindset as even today, many years later, that seems to be the pinnacle area for wages for most.
The problem is fundamental.
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

#98 Post by Cat Driver » Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:51 pm

Just to make my position clear I am first a mechanic and second a driver.

Being both allows me to figure out which requires the most knowledge and skills.
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

#99 Post by DonutHole » Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:16 pm

Just one look at this forum and you see the contempt.

strega puts us one notch above neanderthal, photo fly same deal, there are many pilots who come in here and let us know exactly how valuable they feel our certification is worth, yet none will put their plane into owner maintenance and tank the value, though their logic would dictate if their thoughts were true there would be no impact on value.

The reason we are not valued is the perception that what we do is relatively worthless, I mean really it's a lawnmower with wings.

Until our skillset is perceived as valuable the trade will generate wages amongst the lowest in skilled trades.

To a certain degree is have to agree. It doesn't take a long time to learn how a Cessna or piper works.

The skill comes with the judgment calls. What do I sign out, how close to the limit do I run a specific part, do I pencil whip the compass swing and save the customer an hour labor.

What we should be paid for is the skills we use to maintain safe aircraft while running close enough to the limit to keep flying affordable. To me, that is what separates a good ame from a bad one. That is the knowledge that takes years to develop. Literally any warm body can pass basic training and become a licensed engineer, the system is not set up to fail people, but once out there we have to deal with a quagmire of opposing forces, and the skill of being a good ame is not letting those forces rip you apart while still Keeping the planes in the air.

Despite being undervalued, I doubt any of us here sacrifice safety for profits. Sitting at home it is easy to look at a bill and wish you dint have to spend the money, but the choice to replace that part and spend your money is secondary to whether or not we sleep at night.

I've experienced and witnessed some absolutely brutal aspects of aviation, being in a powerless position to change obvious deficiency,seeing green ames conned into installing bogus parts, seeing specialized maintenance done by people I wouldn't let fix my toaster (uunless I was accepting that they would eliminate themselves from society) with no authority to do so.

Not being one of those guys fills me with a sense of entitlement for a wage that enables living and being able to have some extras.

Unfortunately, as with the pilot pool, there is way too much lowest common denominator floating around the industry.

Entry level pilots come out with their license, and if they don't do anything wrong they keep it.

For the first three years of an Ames journey we don't have that. We have to get our license to make the wage and to do that we put ourselves in a vulnerable position. Not with liability, but with risk to our moral compass. We are held hostage by the operator, if we leave before obtaining the license we put ourselves in the position of perhaps never being able to get it, and if something goes wrong in the meantime, we can end up being forced away from the industry with nothing.

You cannot go out and buy an ame license. the same cannot be said for pilots.

We aren't hholding a grinder for a welder, or shooting 2x4 boards together with an air nailer, we are working on flying machines and with that comes the opportunity to put a pilot in the position where no matter how skilled He is he might not be able to fly himself out of our screw up.

Never letting that happen has to be worth something more than subsistence level wages.
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Re: AME Wages - AME's Unite!!

#100 Post by NeverBlue » Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:52 am

Until our skillset is perceived as valuable the trade will generate wages amongst the lowest in skilled trades.
totally disagree.

...it's not the skill-set that's valuable...it's the person that has the skill-set.

Until certain people here realize that, they will go nowhere.

...and well said Heliian

BTW my current job was never advertised...I was head-hunted...
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