Choosing plane for PPL training

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amaksr
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Choosing plane for PPL training

Post by amaksr » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:32 am

Hello avcanada members!

I am new to aviation, and need an advise on following subject...

I want to buy a plane to do PPL training and then do flight exam as well. I am thinking of certified two-seater with ~100hp engine, so it burns less fuel per hour (compared to C172 in most flight schools), with metal skin, so it doesn't need hangar. There are few available for around 25k.

Now, there are few types offered for sale, but can they really be used for training and exam?
So far I researched:

Cessna C150 - seems to be the best choice, as it used in many flight schools

Grumman AA1 - this "trainer" is not allowed to spin, and spins are part of flight test exam according to TC document TP 13723. So cannot be used?

Ercoupe 415 - doesn't have rudder pedals as most usual planes do, is it a major problem?

Piper PA22 - some air mech told me that it has single brake gear between seats, therefore some flight instructors do not consider it as full dual control, and will not train on it. Not sure if it's true, seems very minor to me... Also it is a fabric plane, it needs hangar.

Luscombe, Aeronca from 194x - fabric (need hangar), no electricity (manual start), therefore I am not considering these.

Are my conclusions correct? What are the other good planes that can be used for both training and flight exams?

Thanks
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ayseven
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Re: Choosing plane for PPL training

Post by ayseven » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:36 pm

Just speaking from experience, the handbrake on the TriPacer is SHIT.
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photofly
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Re: Choosing plane for PPL training

Post by photofly » Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:42 am

There’s no spin involved in the PPL flight text, but you need a lesson on spins and it’s easier to arrange this in your own plane, which you can only do if it’s approved for intentional spins

Almost all Luscombes have both metal wings and an electric starter.

Having said that, you might question the wisdom of doing spins in a airplane that’s seventy years old, and you might find it hard to find an instructor with tailwheel skills to train you ab-initio in it.
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C150 has a very limited payload, which can be a problem if you’re heavy. (Limits your choice of instructors to small people).

DA20 is an option, if you can find one, Cherokee 140, too. If the wing spar isn’t cracked. Also the Piper Tomahawk.

Basically there’s a reason most flight schools use the 172.
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lhalliday
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Re: Choosing plane for PPL training

Post by lhalliday » Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:10 pm

Visit any flight school. You will see lots of 152s, 172s and Cherokees. Fly one of their planes for a few hours first. Owning a plane is rewarding - the first time I signed my plane's journey log was almost as memorable as my first solo - but it can be challenging.

A 150 just doesn't have the payload unless you and any potential passengers are tiny. A 152 does. Sorta.

...laura
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PilotDAR
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Re: Choosing plane for PPL training

Post by PilotDAR » Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:27 am

A 150 just doesn't have the payload unless you and any potential passengers are tiny. A 152 does. Sorta.
If you really need to haul a load, buy a load hauler, which a 150/152 was never designed to be. That said, I took my wife, two folding bikes, and a very modest amount of luggage in my 150, and flew to the Bahamas and back in practical leg lengths. Yes, I've done the same trip in the C 310, and C 182RG, but the difference is that I can afford the 150 (and it can be landed on the beach on the way!).

150/152's are modest, but they do what it says on the box reliably and affordably. For a number of the other types you listed (and I've flown all of them other than the Luscombe), they each have their qualities, but the commonality of the 150/152 tells you that they last well economically. For the other types, if you break it, or something breaks, will parts and repairs be as readily found as for the Cessna? Unlikely. People have the other types for various reasons. I have a 150 because it's one of the most common light planes available. Parts are readily available, and every shop knows how to fix one. Start researching structural repair for a Grumman, and you'll see the limitations!
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C.W.E.
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Re: Choosing plane for PPL training

Post by C.W.E. » Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:43 am

What PilotDar said about sums it up, the C150 is hard to beat and affordable.

During the years I owned a flight school I operated just about every light airplane available and I only liked a couple of other ones, the Tomahawk and the Grumman Cheetah.

But the C150 still was the moneymaker.
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lhalliday
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Re: Choosing plane for PPL training

Post by lhalliday » Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:52 am

I'm familiar with the challenges of owning an oddball plane, since my plane is a Beech 23 Musketeer. Off-the-shelf components are no problem - an O320 is an O320, tires are tires, radios are radios. Other stuff can be challenging, expensive, outright unobtanium. Plus the fact that few shops have ever even seen one.

When I was shopping for a plane the 152 was on the list. I've flown them. They're nice. But I'm such a tight fit that I was concerned about getting out in a hurry in an emergency.

...laura
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Pilotdaddy
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Re: Choosing plane for PPL training

Post by Pilotdaddy » Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:01 am

At 200 lbs, would a 150/152 still be an aircraft to consider? Assuming another body at 200 lbs, that doesn't leave me much when it comes to fuel, correct?
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lhalliday
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Re: Choosing plane for PPL training

Post by lhalliday » Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:25 am

Correct. With two 200 pound bodies you can't fly with full fuel tanks in a 152. And since you're taking off at maximum gross the takeoff and climb out are somewhat leisurely.

...laura
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amaksr
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Re: Choosing plane for PPL training

Post by amaksr » Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:18 pm

Thanks everyone for the inputs.
So far it looks like C150 would be the best choice for me for the purposes of cheap PPL training and some occasional flying after that. I am 150lbs netto, I hope limited payload is not going to be a problem. All the other planes are either considerably more expensive to buy/operate/maintain, or less available, or too unusual.
Once I have PPL I will likely look for faster and more powerful 4-seater, but training and actual flying are two different missions with different requirements, so I think it should be handled separately.
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