Flight training with masks?

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Kejidog
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Re: Flight training with masks?

Post by Kejidog »

Wow. Sorry to trigger the meltdown of society. As i stated i do not see the benefit of a home made dirty sewn mask made from a piece of cotton. I don’t claim to be an expert, unlike all the armchair epidemiologists on here. I didn’t claim to be an expert i just stated my experience with 30 years in the field. If my opinion is so radical to unleash all this self important crybabism. I guess i will continue to fly my aircraft with people who are not afraid of a chest cold, and let the rest of you all cower in fear and follow blindly the “rules” created by mommy and daddy government. Have a nice day snowflakes.
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photofly
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Re: Flight training with masks?

Post by photofly »

ATAC guidelines for the flight training industry are to use respiratory protection when it is not possible to maintain physical distance requirements. The responsible Flight Training Unit will follow its own industry guidelines.

This is not about panic. This is about having everyone's cooperation in achieving what may only be a modest reduction in infection rates. However, even a modest reduction is worthwhile.

It's regrettable that people see this as a (frankly, childish) opportunity to polish and display their non-conformist credentials.
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Pilotdaddy
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Re: Flight training with masks?

Post by Pilotdaddy »

Kejidog wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:21 am Wow. Sorry to trigger the meltdown of society. As i stated i do not see the benefit of a home made dirty sewn mask made from a piece of cotton. I don’t claim to be an expert, unlike all the armchair epidemiologists on here. I didn’t claim to be an expert i just stated my experience with 30 years in the field. If my opinion is so radical to unleash all this self important crybabism. I guess i will continue to fly my aircraft with people who are not afraid of a chest cold, and let the rest of you all cower in fear and follow blindly the “rules” created by mommy and daddy government. Have a nice day snowflakes.

The way I understood it, you wear a mask to protect others from your own droplets... You're not protecting yourself, necessarily. That's why cloth masks are just as effective as it stops the outgoing gunk from your mouth and nose into the air.

People wearing masks are out there protecting YOU, the older folk who are more likely to die from it. We're not necessarily wearing it to protect ourselves. If that makes me a snowflake for caring about the old people around me, then so be it.

Signed
Snowflake
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digits_
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Re: Flight training with masks?

Post by digits_ »

photofly wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:28 am
Masks, like every other epidemiological response, are probabalistic in nature. if you can reduce the probability of transmission by 15% by wearing a mask - any kind - and the probably of transmission by 17% by staying 6' away from someone, and by 32% by not going out as much as you used to, then you've reduced the probability of transmission by 78%.
You mean you've reduced it by 52% if you do everything, right?

(0.85 * 0.83 * 0.68 = 0.48)
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photofly
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Re: Flight training with masks?

Post by photofly »

Yes. My error. (1.15*1.17*1.32 = 1.776 which is the wrong calculation.)
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Aviatard
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Re: Flight training with masks?

Post by Aviatard »

Kejidog wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:21 am I didn’t claim to be an expert i just stated my experience with 30 years in the field.
Understood. You're a brave soul who won't be told what to do. You still didn't say what makes you skeptical of masks. Nothing, I guess.
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Canuck1988
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Re: Flight training with masks?

Post by Canuck1988 »

HavaJava wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:41 am Airlines do not require crew to wear masks on the flight deck. Don’t know why they need to be worn during training.

I would be looking for a like-minded instructor who would remove their mask when out of sight of the panicky public.
I think one of the differences there is they need to be able to quickly don their O2 masks in case of an emergency. If you were wearing a mask, it would add an extra step when time of useful consciousness could be low.
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Kejidog
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Re: Flight training with masks?

Post by Kejidog »

Aviatard wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:29 pm
Kejidog wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:21 am I didn’t claim to be an expert i just stated my experience with 30 years in the field.
Understood. You're a brave soul who won't be told what to do. You still didn't say what makes you skeptical of masks. Nothing, I guess.
In my field. We put masks on sick people to keep them spreading the virus. Not healthy people to “save lives” or whatever the latest feel good bullshit statement around them is. Theater for the weak minded.
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Re: Flight training with masks?

Post by FenderManDan »

Aviatard wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:29 pm
Kejidog wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:21 am I didn’t claim to be an expert i just stated my experience with 30 years in the field.
Understood. You're a brave soul who won't be told what to do. You still didn't say what makes you skeptical of masks. Nothing, I guess.
I don't think there is anything to do with being brave, Kejidog is just informed. We have the data about the virus and the measures and all that seems to be ignored by the conformist sheeple. Stop watching the fn tv and think for yourself. I did not see anyones heroic attempts to ("save lives" tm) from other corona or influenza viruses in the past.

I do agree about the social distancing since i don't want any of you unknowns near me anyways.
I do agree on good hand washing and general good personal hygiene and that is what i see lacking on a lot of folks that are touting wearing masks.

My 2c
Just let the fn thing run its course, the virus does not want to kill its host.

As per op topic: did TC mandate FTU to have masks on?
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photofly
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Re: Flight training with masks?

Post by photofly »

TC doesn’t have the authority to mandate health measures; it’s a provincial issue.

I actually very much don’t want this virus to “run its course”, exactly the opposite, in fact. I want stringent measures taken to prevent its spread. So does my entire family, many of whom are elderly, and many of whom work in healthcare.

I no more have any difficulty with asking you to wear a face covering of some kind in an enclosed space in public than I do asking you to drive on the right side of the road and stop at red lights. A little inconvenience for individuals is a public benefit for all.
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Pilotdaddy
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Re: Flight training with masks?

Post by Pilotdaddy »

FenderManDan wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:52 am
I don't think there is anything to do with being brave, Kejidog is just informed. We have the data about the virus and the measures and all that seems to be ignored by the conformist sheeple. Stop watching the fn tv and think for yourself. I did not see anyones heroic attempts to ("save lives" tm) from other corona or influenza viruses in the past.

Oh, data! I love data. Please do post about the data you're talking about and maybe I, too, can see the light as you FenderManDan!

Show me the light and educate me. I want to stop being a conformist sheeple.
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Aviatard
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Re: Flight training with masks?

Post by Aviatard »

Kejidog wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:09 am We put masks on sick people to keep them spreading the virus. Not healthy people to “save lives”
Well that works as long as every person who is sick knows that they’re sick and takes measures. The problem is you can spread the virus without knowing you have it or before you show symptoms. Unless you don’t buy into the theory that it can spread that way.

So, random person showing up for some sweet sweet flight training, how do I know for sure you didn’t get exposed two days ago and are about to infect me? I can’t know? Then put on a mask and at least improve my odds a bit. Don’t wanna because freedom? No problem. Go elsewhere.
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Beefitarian
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Re: Flight training with masks?

Post by Beefitarian »

I went out for 1.4 yesterday and once we were done I didn't even bother taking the mask off until I left the building after a debrief and settling my account.

I was using a disposable mask and wore my eyeglasses. Minimal fog issues. It was even a pretty warm day and the straps went behind my ears.

Maybe after a few weeks I'd be tired of it but it was pretty much a non-issue for me. I was concerned about the potential for fogging, maybe that never happened because it was around 23C.
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RedAndWhiteBaron
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Re: Flight training with masks?

Post by RedAndWhiteBaron »

Wow... I originally asked the question to get some opinions on the best way to wear masks in a small cockpit, not whether or not to wear them.

My apologies for starting a flamewar and bringing out all the covidiots :smt040
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Pilotdaddy
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Re: Flight training with masks?

Post by Pilotdaddy »

RedAndWhiteBaron wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:04 pm Wow... I originally asked the question to get some opinions on the best way to wear masks in a small cockpit, not whether or not to wear them.

My apologies for starting a flamewar and bringing out all the covidiots :smt040
It's the internet! And a forum full of pilots at that. Anything less than a flamewar is unacceptable.

Best of luck with your training!
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RedAndWhiteBaron
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Re: Flight training with masks?

Post by RedAndWhiteBaron »

Pilotdaddy wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:53 pm Ontario just mandated masks indoors, California has also done the same, joining several other States.
Ontario hasn't, unless I missed something. Several municipalities/regions in Ontario have, including Toronto and Peel, but masks have not been mandated at the provincial level as of yet.
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Last edited by RedAndWhiteBaron on Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Pilotdaddy
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Re: Flight training with masks?

Post by Pilotdaddy »

RedAndWhiteBaron wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:22 pm
Pilotdaddy wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:53 pm Ontario just mandated masks indoors, California has also done the same, joining several other States.
Ontario hasn't, unless I missed something. Several municipalities/regions in Ontario have, including Toronto and Peel, but masks have not been mandated at the provincial level as of yet.

I stand corrected.
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7ECA
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Re: Flight training with masks?

Post by 7ECA »

The conflicting guidance has been problematic; although trying to hold a pandemic in the age of the twenty-four hour news cycle is a bit of a pain in the ass for the medical field, as they're more used to being left alone to do their jobs until they have something to talk about...

My opinion on wearing a mask is neither here nor there, but if a business asks customers to wear a mask while inside their premises I can respect that entirely. Their sandbox, their rules. Let's face it, there are some businesses where it is difficult if not impossible to ensure social/physical distancing without limiting the number of customers in the building - that is, unless of course rules for reduced occupancy are still in place.

Mind you, I always found it a bit annoying when people would be in close proximity prior to this pandemic with no reason other than to grab something off a shelf. Seems to be to be an issue of decorum, but I digress.
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Re: Flight training with masks?

Post by Transjet »

HavaJava wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:41 am I would be looking for a like-minded instructor who would remove their mask when out of sight of the panicky public.
I did exactly this and it has worked out nicely.
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Re: Flight training with masks?

Post by RedAndWhiteBaron »

To quote the great Brain - there are times when the correct response is to panic, or to flee in terror.

A worldwide pandemic killing hundreds of thousands just might be one of them.
“We should flee in terror. Yes, that would be the wisest course!”–Brain (Pinky and the Brain)
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