Multi Engine Rating in Alberta

[Colonel Sanders]

Why can't/won't schools pay enough to attract experienced drivers to teach new people the ropes

uh, they would pay the experienced guys more, and they
would get the flight training done in fewer hours.

Not good for the FTU. Higher expenses, lower revenue.

[1000 HP]

Regarding Big Pistons "great Mooney Pilot" article: I never described myself as a "Mooney Pilot". If anything I'd describe myself as a "Bush Pilot". In the original post, I mentioned "Money" not "Mooney". The Colonel mentioned I owned a Mooney. Sure a lot of Mooney Pilots crash. But that is because Mooneys cost a lot and were frequently purchased by lower time doctors and lawyers. The Mooney is slippery and can quickly hit Vne if you don't keep on top of it. I knew several dead pilots and each one crashed a different type of aircraft; both singles and twins. Mooneys are not special that way.

But sadly, I have decided to delay the multi rating (again) and just fly a Caravan Amphib and Beaver again this summer. It's close to home and the pay is good. I'll do my Multi with a high time guy I know on a Duchess. It will cost more and if it takes 6 or 8 hours, or 10 no problem but I've decided to do it in the off season.

[Shiny Side Up]

Why can't/won't schools pay enough to attract experienced drivers to teach new people the ropes

uh, they would pay the experienced guys more, and they
would get the flight training done in fewer hours.

Not good for the FTU. Higher expenses, lower revenue.

On the contrary, if one could sell said product there would be more than enough revenue for such a thing. There isn't a market for it though, I should say as well that you just can't pay enough for most experienced drivers to do this sort of stuff. People always forget that it takes special people who have both a lot of experience and a desire to put up with training people. Its a very small percentage of the pilot population.

While we got someone on the hook looking for what we can call specialized flight training, what would a multi rating guaranteed in five hours be worth to you?

Something to think about: Multi rating customers are going to be those in two categories, experienced guys and unexperienced ones. Neither of these will pay big bucks for said training. Experienced fellows already figure that the training is going to be for paper purposes, so don't want to pay big bucks for an instructor, because they feel that they already know everything so its going to be a formality. they're interested solely in lowest price per hour because they're confident that their ability will make up for the instructor's lack thereof. In experienced customers on the other hand are also looking for lowest price per hour as their buying point since they're interested in hours in the log book and those precious multi hours are icing on the cake if they do more. They're often interested in a package sort of deal - this is how the majority of multi training is sold - flight schools are making money off of selling the whole CPL/Multi IFR/diploma package rather than specifically the multi training itself. The school is looking for a balance of offering it at lowest cost, thus lowest time, but also the least experience offering it. Most will have someone in abouts the middle.

Either way, it makes for a double sided inefficient system since all sides of it aren't interested in quality of training, or only as much as to not cause a capital loss of equipment, which happens often enough in pursuit of the lowest price.

Second question, as an experienced multi instructor, how much do people feel is a fair wage? Per rating or per hour?

[Colonel Sanders]

as an experienced multi instructor, how much do people feel is a fair wage?

It's kind of an academic question, because the low-time
instructors are so desperate for MPIC, they'd probably be
willing to pay for each hour of instruction that they gave
on a little twin.

Sort of like an old hooker, looking at young college girls
half her age, that will pay the college guys to do it. Can't
compete with that!

[Shiny Side Up]

as an experienced multi instructor, how much do people feel is a fair wage?

It's kind of an academic question, because the low-time
instructors are so desperate for MPIC, they'd probably be
willing to pay for each hour of instruction that they gave
on a little twin.

So then you agree that there is no market for quality Multi instruction? People are constantly saying that they want experienced guys teaching, but we've yet to see someone put their money where their mouth is.

[Colonel Sanders]

I think I agree with you that in general, there is really
very little demand for quality flight instruction - not just
multi - because by the time people know the difference,
it's too late - they've already spent their money.

I think this is true for all of PPL, CPL, multi, MIFR and
class 4 instructor training, which has really devolved
into a Walmart commodity.

[Cat Driver]

Well I guess the low quality of instructing could be another example of flying an airplane really is not all that difficult because despite poor instructing people still manage to get them up and down.

So yeh I can see that the way things are is O.K. because it seems to work.

[Shiny Side Up]

So yeh I can see that the way things are is O.K. because it seems to work.

It doesn't work, but the customer is happy with the product, hence the problem. Flight instruction is sort of like iphones, it doesn't seem to matter if it doesn't work well, people continue to buy it regardless, as long as they can get it now.

[1000 HP]

Well, although I am delaying the rating somewhat, I decided to go with a highly experienced instructor with 10's of thousands of hours of flight time. I also picked a more expensive airplane for training. But my instructor will teach me how to fly multi, at an uncontrolled airport to avoid wasting time idling on the ramp. We won't even turn the nav radios on. I'm looking to get a copy of the POH shortly so I should be familiar with the Duchess soon. Maybe the hourly rate is more, but it should work out well. I'm intending to fly VFR mostly in uncontrolled airspace. Basically, I will pay more per hour and get what I want and need.

[Big Pistons Forever]

. Basically, I will pay more per hour and get what I want and need.

[digits_]

I think I agree with you that in general, there is really
very little demand for quality flight instruction - not just
multi - because by the time people know the difference,
it's too late - they've already spent their money.

I think this is true for all of PPL, CPL, multi, MIFR and
class 4 instructor training, which has really devolved
into a Walmart commodity.

I think this is true, but you leave out one aspect that -for me- would make a huge difference: the minimum requirements imposed by the government.

If I think back to the start of my PPL, I was young(er) and of course convinced that I would be flying the plane in no-time. Now, did I care about which instructor I would chose ? Not really, since I "had" to fly 45 hours anyway. Availability of the instructor and the price of the planes were more important. I might have overestimated my abilities, but mostly thanks to the problems between the instructor and his wife, I ended up with +- 70 hours before taking the checkride.

Now, if the government wouldn't have required 45 hours, I would have done a ton of research and made a lot of phone calls, to find out the which instructor would be able to get me my license in the least amount of hours. Next, when I started my IFR training, I did do my research and look for a school that would get me there in minimal hours and made it perfectly clear that was my intention when I signed their contract. I had 2 minutes more than legally required. And I was proud about that


Or maybe I'm just thinking in a weird way, that's possible as well.

[Colonel Sanders]

If you dig a little you will discover that a lot
of flight instruction is really bad. Despite that,
people manage to teach themselves how to
fly despite their horrible instruction environment,
some of the time.

As SSU keeps saying, he doesn't understand why
people don't put the same effort into choosing a
school for their $10,000 PPL, that they would in
choosing a $500 TV, cellphone or other trinket.

If it's a bad school, the word will be out on it. Just
spend a few minutes with Google.