How do I stop myself from beating on a 152?

[photofly]

I highly doubt any FTU is going to allow a falling leaf excercise,

Oh for goodness sakes. You really are talking out of your ass.

[Rookie50]

I highly doubt any FTU is going to allow a falling leaf excercise,

Oh for goodness sakes. You really are talking out of your ass.

Hmmmm ---

Like premier Wynne. Apparently no critique allowed.

Analysing on these pages is not FTU bashing -- btw.

Feelings.......

[tipsails]

I recall doing "falling leaf" in my CPL training. It wasn't really a briefed thing or something we planned, I just remember one day while doing stalls my instructor showed me and we did a few. It was pretty neat, and quite easy in a Cessna with the stall characteristics.

[cgzro]

I would hope most CFIs could safely do it. Its really just a continuous stall so no big deal really.
If you are an instructor and worried about something useful like a falling leaf go find somebody to show you and pass it on. Superb way to learn better control of your plane. Start at slow idle then add more and more power to add difficulty. Add flaps for fun. Learn to turn as you stall. All easy and safe and superb excercises and you wont be ham fisted after that.

But 11hrs is probably a bit early:)

[photofly]

I highly doubt any FTU is going to allow a falling leaf excercise,

Oh for goodness sakes. You really are talking out of your ass.

Hmmmm ---

Like premier Wynne. Apparently no critique allowed.

Analysing on these pages is not FTU bashing -- btw.

Feelings.......

Your (incorrect) doubts about what FTUs allow or don't allow are not a critique or analysis of anything. They're just ignorant guesses drawn from your own prejudices which you present as "fact".

[Tylerjohnston]

Weave a pen in between your fingers on one hand, the more you clench the more it hurts. Little trick a checkride examiner told me.

[Rookie50]

[/quote]
Your (incorrect) doubts about what FTUs allow or don't allow are not a critique or analysis of anything. They're just ignorant guesses drawn from your own prejudices which you present as "fact".[/quote]


Cm' PF, lets be friends. Not bashing.

Just a long period of observation that most flight training is very very fair weather. I see it (or lack of ) at ZBA and hear it (or lack of) on comm on crappy days that are perfectly fine VFR / MVFR

How do (CPL's in particular) get seasoned if not deliberately exposed to some crappy but safe conditions? Even the CC. Where does everyone go? Montreal. Follow the highway (zzzzzzzzzzzzzz)

BORING!


I think I would BAN Montreal as a CPL CC destination if I could -- make it either the States somewhere like NYC, or up north like Wawa. DR, too, (up north) No GPS usage allowed --

Or both. One each, 2 pilots, do both destinations.

[princessna172]

ok so I'm a girl at 5'2 and I dont need a cushion in a 152. it's not exactly a big plane. are you raising the seat up? make sure you're sitting properly. I'm also incredibly hard on the controls and what really sunk in for me was when my instructor told me "when you move something, the plane lags, wait for a few seconds instead of overcorrecting" on takeoff he told me not to put the nose above the horizon, which helped me realize exactly how little movement I have to use. Landing is smoother if you keep one hand on the yolk and the other on the throttle.
finding another way to get rid of your anger might help, exercise is a good way to do that if you're a physical person. pick up an agressive sport.
If you keep practicing and keep trying to fine tune things you will eventually get a feel for it. Try not to stress about it because that will honestly only make it worse.

[Rockie]

I seem to be getting more violent the more I practice! I just can’t tone myself down. I’ve always had this problem driving a car, too, and slamming every door I ever close, it’s not just an airplane thing.

First of all, take some anger management classes - not kidding. Life's too short to go around angry all the time never mind all the s**t it'll get you into. Intellectually you know your aggressiveness is adversely effecting everything you do so deal with that first. Next, watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpjP3mxv21s

Notice how the dog doesn't move the sheep by ramming his head into their sides? It's called coaxing, and that's what you do with an airplane. You don't move the controls - you apply pressure. The controls will resist that pressure giving you feedback so be aware of it. The more pressure you apply and the more abruptly you apply it the more extreme will be the plane's reaction. The airplane talks to you through the controls and you need to start "listening".

Sounds a bit zen but there it is...

[Shiny Side Up]

Sounds a bit zen but there it is..

I think one could write a book titled Zen and The Art of Flying Airplanes. The airplane is a blade, not a club. You slice with it, not chop.

Meditate on this.

[photofly]

By the way, how is Grasshopper?

[Shiny Side Up]

By the way, how is Grasshopper?

Still not quick enough.

Either way, there are many approaches to this, some more effective depending on your mindset. I could go with western wisdom rather than eastern wisdom on this matter if it gets the point across.

In that case airplanes are a lot like horses. Planes, like Horses, will always try to do what they want to do. Sometimes that's what you want, sometimes its not. If you want to stay on a horse though, you have to think ahead of it and prevent it from doing what it wants to do, you won't stop it from doing what its going to do once it starts. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure and all that. Except with airplanes and horses, you won't win a contest of strength with them (well my Grandpa could, with horses that is, but most people aren't bigger than horses like he was). To mix my metaphors, you can however win a contest of preparation, forethought and patience. A blade is a tool in the same regard. Cut accurately, cut once and at the right moment.

For example, most of the time a horse will take the path of least resistance. You don't have to do anything. Same as the plane, It likes to go in straight lines. The more you actively drive it, the more it resists, the worse the ride gets. Sometimes you do have to make the airplane do what it doesn't want to do. Being ahead of it means you can use small effort rather than attempt to use large effort.

The plane, like a horse, also knows when you're scared of it.

That said though, the other school of thought is that being hard on equipment is something ingrained from youth and only the most drastic measures will get people to change their ways. Running the risk of being politically incorrect, Girls are more prone to this than Boys since they are more often (though not always) raised in a softer manner. Fathers, who are usually the teachers of using tools and devices for youths, don't hit their girl children (in most normal circumstances) and corporeal punishment is not generally used as a tool of negative reinforcement. Consequently most women I know are hard on equipment. They also aren't usually engaged in the fixing of broken things. Again there are exceptions, and the world is certainly changing in that regard with lots more of the girls I see being substantially more willing to get to work than a lot of the soft handed mama's boys I see.

Either way, if your airplane beating tendencies don't stop, you should find the most severe Frau of an instructor. I say frau, since its generally looked down upon for boys to hit girls, so you might need someone who beats you when you get to rambunctious, ham handed and careless. Nothing wakes someone up like a cuff upside the head, a smack on the hands and the odd bruised shoulder or threat of getting a switch. Its possible you might need visceral and the most direct kind of motivation to enact change.

Contrary to popular belief, the lash can be very effective motivation.

Meditate on this.

[CpnCrunch]

I think there's an instructor at YBW who might meet SSU's description, and she'll teach you how to fly right.

[photofly]

The plane, like a horse, also knows when you're scared of it.

This is very true.

On the other hand...

Fathers, who are usually the teachers of using tools and devices for youths, don't hit their girl children (in most normal circumstances) and corporeal punishment is not generally used as a tool of negative reinforcement. Consequently most women I know are hard on equipment..

I really think we don't need to push the idea that you can't be good pilot unless your father beat you as a child.

I'm also sure the concepts that:
- fathers do (or should) hit their children
- being beaten as a child makes you kind on equipment
- women are as a rule hard on equipment
are both false and somewhat disturbing to read on a forum for pilots.

I also need clarification as to what is corporeal (as opposed to corporal) punishment. Is it having your body removed from you?

[Shiny Side Up]

I think there's an instructor at YBW who might meet SSU's description, and she'll teach you how to fly right.

OOh, nice pun, kudos. As not to hurt feelings, I can't really recommend her methods. But hey if one does need to resort to something desperate it may be worth a try.

I'm also sure the concepts that:
- fathers do (or should) hit their children
- being beaten as a child makes you kind on equipment
- women are as a rule hard on equipment
are both false and somewhat disturbing to read on a forum for pilots.

I'm sorry, I should have peppered that with maybe more winks or something. It was a bit tongue in cheek. I'm not advocating child abuse, but certainly will advocate in all seriousness some tougher love on the subject. I would maintain that people who aren't earlier drilled in responsibility, and being careful as children become adults who aren't careful or responsible. We come from a throw away society where taking care of things isn't a valued thing to do. Increasingly fathers (and mothers if you want to think of it this way) shirk from the responsibility of teaching their children this basic principle. That now, is my opinion, and I'll stick to it.

And the last bit is because our OP is a girl and was hoping for a bit of a rise out of them. A challenge, if you will, to prove me wrong. Making people angry sometimes gets them to change. But I'll put a here so feelings aren't hurt. Like when I tell my wife she throws like a girl.

But all said and done I didn't grow up in a nice world, and Dad wasn't gentle with his children. Neither was his Dad. Like Sue, I can thank him for it now, but I'll admit I resented it when I was younger. That's just reality, sorry if its scary. The world is a scary place, and I'll maintain you got to be tough if you want to come out the other side of it. I'm sorry that the world is so PC that we can't talk about how things are or were without people being disturbed.

I also need clarification as to what is corporeal (as opposed to corporal) punishment. Is it having your body removed from you?

That's my bad on the spelling, you caught me sir, kudos.

Further on the subject though, what is good is that the OP knows they are doing something wrong and is hopefully genuinely seeking to change. There does exist the possibility that they were seeking that one answer that was going to soothe their ego to justify their errant behavior (which I've seen frequently in the past) but lets assume otherwise for now. If you are going to change your behavior, you have to want to. If you can change the way you think about something, then you can change the way you do something. This is harder than it seems - see the learning factor of primacy, which governs how kids are as children predicts how they will be as adults - but entirely possible. I'd maintain that if you don't want to change, then the only way you will change will be by the heavy application of negative reinforcement. The lash, figuratively speaking. This it must be noted sometimes has unintended consequences and the former method is preferable to change behavior.

An instructor's job is partly to influence your thought on any subject so you will want to learn it.

[Rockie]

I forget to mention one thing. Your life depends on your airplane - do you want to treat it right or like a piece of crap?

[flyingforlife22]

My instructor was a very experienced pilot who flew in the military. He said never to make quick motions. I started flight training flying stick aircraft versus the yoke style in the 152. He would insist on making sure I would't make super jumpy and quick changes. When you do these quick changes in a stick aircraft it somewhat resembles the motions that your trying to churn butter quickly.( I know that seems funny but he worked on a family farm growing up) To this day though it sticks in my mind to use smooth inputs and not be quick and jumpy. The same thing applies in a yoke aircraft, try and be smooth.

1) I would suggest looking towards the end of the runway versus the beginning.
2) Adding a touch of power in the flare to soften the landing.
3) If you have a long runway available get your instructor to do a low pass inches off he runway in a landing configuration. Just so you can get that optimum site picture stuck in your mind. Just ease off the power and keep the nose up allowing the aircraft to settle and 9 out of 10 times this method will allow you to land smoothly.
4) You could also try a quick flight in a 172. See how you like how it handles in comparison.
5) You could b landing with a little brake o causing the aircraft to bite when you land. Once again try going to a long runway. Land with your feet only on the rudders allowing the airplane to roll out tan transition to the brakes.

These are just some ideas i can remember from training! All the best

[PilotDAR]

Quick control motions might be appropriate, if they're small and appropriate. If you've ever paddled a canoe, you'll have a sense of being in harmony with the liquid in which you operate. You can paddle effectively, J stroke, scull, and other paddle movements, or, you can thrash and splash the paddle ineffectively, and make lots of noise and commotion, with little effect on the desired motion.

Your plane also travels in a "liquid", less dense air, but the same factors apply. If you thrash the controls out of harmony with the flow and density of the air, you're just creating turbulence, and drag, with much less control. You can apply many small, precise movements of the controls within the flow of the air, and hold the aircraft with desired precision in position. And, you can apply smooth, more slow larger control movements to cause graceful attitude change.

When you fly, think about the paddle in the water, and the turbulence and disruption you might see in the water around it - if you're rough. Then move the controls with consideration, short and crisp, or long and smooth, and feel the plane react to your care.

If you get flying taildraggers on a gusty crosswind day, you'll find that sharp, rapid rudder use (combined with smooth, co-ordinated ailerons) will be required. You won't have time to make slow rudder inputs, you'll be around the other way on the runway first.

When hovering a helicopter, with everything in perfect balance, if you start "stirring" the cyclic control, the helicopter will descend, simply because the stirred controls and rapid pitch change of the blades creates drag, and surrenders lift, so you'll settle. That's the same principle, and you soon learn that the controls should be moved in harmony with the air, not in conflict with it!

[PilotDAR]

This video:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dplkwrW8Dqs[/youtube]

shows control movements which are out of harmony with the aircraft, and really having nearly no affect on the control of the aircraft. I think the pilot has the skill to know that, but a clear example of a way to not move the flight controls.

[LeadPedals]

Hey everyone, thanks for the advice. A few weeks later, I feel I’ve made some improvement on patience and waiting for the plane to respond. I’m understanding that it all comes about it time. I feel that I’m not being so heavy on the controls as much as I was a while back, like I have some more awareness of what I’m doing. I also needed to get repairs done to my car in the same time frame (make whatever comments about women drivers you will, it’s actually the first time I’ve damaged a vehicle), so maybe the point got across to me in that way as well, as it was brought up way back how realizing how expensive maintenance is can be a good initiative to change.

I started doing some meditation for stress, anger, etc. and found that it has helped me in general. Through meditation I instantly realized that I tense up my shoulder muscles when experiencing those emotions, which of course is no good when trying to control my movement smoothly. When I meditate before flying, or driving, or going to school, I notice that my hands become less grippy and I feel less like kicking things. It gives me more concentration and awareness of how I’m thinking and acting. If anyone with similar issues is reading this thread, I recommend finding some meditation videos or tracks. There are a lot of good free ones online. I know it’s not going to fix everything for me, but it’s helped.

I don’t want to distract from the original topic, but since it happens anyways, I’ll bring up the remarks about gender…I work at a lodge where many of the guests and staff are (often drunk, or just plain rude) men, so I’m used to hearing stupid things about women operating boats badly, breaking motors and generators and pumps, not having enough physical strength, not working hard enough, just getting tips based on looks, etc., and I’m not wanting to start a lengthy, purposeless Internet argument over gender because I’ve heard all this before, to a worse extent. So here's what I'll say. I’ve seen way more guys break things from harsh treatment and care less about maintenance and safety than girls, but who’s to say if it’s a matter of gender ratios in the workplace or tendencies from how people were raised or how much they care about their job. (It also has to be said that there a lot of decent people in that business as well and the positive experiences have outweighed the bad so far, so I’m definitely not saying all men have treated me badly–– the lodge is actually how I got into aviation since men were willing to share their passion of bush flying with me, and I’m planning on staying around for a while in a non-flying job, hopefully with a PPL and float endorsement to just enjoy life). What I've learned from my job is that arguing doesn’t get anyone anywhere unless you stand up to face-to-face harassment and continue acting firmly, but still respectfully, until people–– men or women, because both have their biases–– decide to be less arrogant around you. As for the skills and knowledge that I may or may not have, I am the stereotypical female who knows little about mechanics. I never took shop classes in high school because I was afraid of how my peers and teachers would react, and I was told that I should focus on university-type subjects rather than trades–– which I now think was dumb, but that’s high school, and that’s the reality for a lot of girls, from what I know–– so I am set on learning some basic maintenance of boats, planes, appliances, cabins and so on as I go along in life. I’m not sure if it’s going to change how carefully I handle objects, but we’ll see. The overall point that I want to make is that other women who haven’t had the same experiences as me could be offended and discouraged by some comments made, and I hope people do consider that, whoever it is behind the usernames. I don’t know many women who are interested in aviation, and there might not be much interest if intentional baiting and insults are going on online or publicly. Please think about it.