Confederation College, Thunder Bay

[YvesT]

I spent 4 months in Thunder Bay about 10 years ago, did not pass the first semester. At the time, they were saying that because it worked out to be many times cheaper than getting the rating elsewhere, they could afford to act the way they did. I only came back to flying about 14 months ago and since got all the rating, CPL and Multi IFR for less than 15$K Canadian. I do not know how many hours you get on floats in Thunder Bay, but the guy that did my multi rating does float rating for 1100$ over a weekend (about 7-8 hours in a cub). That is the only rating I did not get for my 15K. All of the training if done in sequence could be had in 3 months, full time.
During my time in TB, I logged 17 hours in 4 months when in the real world I got a PPL in two and half weeks. TB is definitely not cheaper financially.

That is why I say to each their own.

[tbayav8er]

CPL (requires 200 hrs), and multi IFR for under 15k? Something's not adding up here. Just to rent a plane solo for 200 hrs for $15k, the aircraft rental would be only $75/hour. That's not including any groundschool, instructor fee or flight tests.

[awitzke]

I paid shy of 10k for a multi/IFR, and did it fairly fast. I don't see how those numbers work. YvesT, care to give a breakdown?

[YvesT]

Please,

PPL - 6200$
IFR - 5100$
CPL - 2100$
Multi - 2100$

All the prices are in CAD$. In terms of recency, all within the last 14 months, Multi done about 5 weeks ago.
All the prices include all of the prep expenses and examination costs(check rides).
Disclaimer, I had about 17 hours prior to PPL training. About 0.3 of solo if I remember correct.

In terms of time,
PPL - 16 days
IFR - 14 days (including 25 hours of hood prior to training)
CPL - 9 days (including written)
Multi - 2 days

All of the training was conducted by 'experienced' professional instructors, 10K hours plus. What I mean by this is that none of the instruction was done by somebody who was doing it to build hours, but rather people who made it into their profession. Just to clarify that point, none of the instructors were paid less than 50$ an hour.

The prices quoted above do not include the 70 or so hours to go up to CPL that is correct, however, it does include the 25 hours of hood time for IFR.
All of the ground instruction is free when you pay 50$ for a flying hour to the instructors. All of my ratings were done full time when lodging is mostly included in the price.

All I am saying is that there are different ways to get to the same end result, which in the case of this discussion is a CPL with Group 1 IFR.

[fpsbc]

Please,

PPL - 6200$
IFR - 5100$
CPL - 2100$
Multi - 2100$

All the prices are in CAD$. In terms of recency, all within the last 14 months, Multi done about 5 weeks ago.
All the prices include all of the prep expenses and examination costs(check rides).
Disclaimer, I had about 17 hours prior to PPL training. About 0.3 of solo if I remember correct.

In terms of time,
PPL - 16 days
IFR - 14 days (including 25 hours of hood prior to training)
CPL - 9 days (including written)
Multi - 2 days

All of the training was conducted by 'experienced' professional instructors, 10K hours plus. What I mean by this is that none of the instruction was done by somebody who was doing it to build hours, but rather people who made it into their profession. Just to clarify that point, none of the instructors were paid less than 50$ an hour.

The prices quoted above do not include the 70 or so hours to go up to CPL that is correct, however, it does include the 25 hours of hood time for IFR.
All of the ground instruction is free when you pay 50$ for a flying hour to the instructors. All of my ratings were done full time when lodging is mostly included in the price.

All I am saying is that there are different ways to get to the same end result, which in the case of this discussion is a CPL with Group 1 IFR.

I respect your opinion on the fact that they are different ways to obtain your licenses and ratings but it looks to me you did the good ol' quick and dirty. Sure you did pretty much everything in a little more than a month and were full time, but there's only so many hours in the day. Could you explain where you found the time to also write the exams and have a beer or two? Either you did all of your training in Florida or you were super lucky with Wx, because what you point out really doesn't make too much sense. Regardless, let's say you did go from zero to hero in a month and a bit, which btw Cathay Cadet pilots do, but in a year, I question how in depth in theory you got into? I admit I am completely biased in my opinion but at Confed, we get almost triple the amount of required ground school hours in the first year, and trust me there's a reason why we get jobs quickly. As far as the experienced pilot thing goes. Sure Confed has some interns who've just got their CPL but their all supervised by Senior Instructors who have a paramount of hours and are well known by both TC and the industry. For those who've made it to 2nd year you'd know that these senior instructors become your permanent instructors and you gain a wealth of knowledge. Regardless to each their own, but keep in mind the pilot who you're flying with next time may have just got the minimum TC requirement of 120 hours of ground school (PPL & CPL) and may have passed the exams with the bare minimum of 60% or 70% for the INRAT.

[awitzke]

Don't feed the troll.

[SuperchargedRS]

Not sure about now, but back in the day they washed out 2/3rd's of the class after first year! A few were lacking the skill to fly but aced the accounting programs and were kept in, if you flubbed the accounting classes you got the boot no matter what. Still couldn't figure out why you needed all those business classes for this course, but anyways... you had all your documentation sent to a review panel after the first year and they decided if you got punted or not.

Starts in Sept but you work the following summer getting the float endorsement, year two was commercial work and you were done by April. Might have changed by now though. It's a good course, but again the business side of it sucks and is basically useless... I think it's their way of having an excuse to "cull the herd" after year one...

Exactly

For my time there is was the mystery final test (where they never let your "corrected" work) which they culled everyone with.

Personally I think that program is due for some deep accountant auditing, or at least back when I went, I have 5 bucks and a beer on them not having the funding to put all the people they accept in through the entire program.

Money wise, go to a good mom and pop with a small tailwheel, or buy 7AC, C120, etc and find a GOOD freelance guy, while in school work a job on the side on the ramp, or better yet in a mx shop, you'll end up spending less if you ran a P&L after all was done and you'll end up better off in the job market for it.


Side note, I went into the program with a college degree, did just fine up till the final and was culled out.

A couple weeks later I restarted straining with a small and old school in a 7AC, after my PPL bought my own tailwheel while working full time, now am probably at or ahead of most folks who were in my class, mainly because of the initial leg up having 200hrs of tailwheel time and a good chunk of float time when I earned my CPL.

[fpsbc]

Not sure about now, but back in the day they washed out 2/3rd's of the class after first year! A few were lacking the skill to fly but aced the accounting programs and were kept in, if you flubbed the accounting classes you got the boot no matter what. Still couldn't figure out why you needed all those business classes for this course, but anyways... you had all your documentation sent to a review panel after the first year and they decided if you got punted or not.

Starts in Sept but you work the following summer getting the float endorsement, year two was commercial work and you were done by April. Might have changed by now though. It's a good course, but again the business side of it sucks and is basically useless... I think it's their way of having an excuse to "cull the herd" after year one...

Exactly

For my time there is was the mystery final test (where they never let your "corrected" work) which they culled everyone with.

Personally I think that program is due for some deep accountant auditing, or at least back when I went, I have 5 bucks and a beer on them not having the funding to put all the people they accept in through the entire program.

Money wise, go to a good mom and pop with a small tailwheel, or buy 7AC, C120, etc and find a GOOD freelance guy, while in school work a job on the side on the ramp, or better yet in a mx shop, you'll end up spending less if you ran a P&L after all was done and you'll end up better off in the job market for it.

This Mystery test is to weed out the ones who have the commitment for the program, you study hard every night for the month before you'll be fine.. Reason why they're so secretive about it is, so they can keep the integrity of the exam. The program is subsidized by the government but I think you already know that, so I'm not sure why you're wondering. The government gives the college a certain amount for each student that is attending, so honestly they have no reason to cull people out, who doesn't like free government money? I respect your opinion but then again whatever works.

[SuperchargedRS]

That's is a weak argument.

Far larger schools and far smaller schools return tests, especially heavily weighted tests, you just make a new one each year, it's kinda what you're paid to do.

There is ZERO reason someone should go into that test with a good average and fail it, there is absolutely zero reason someone should pass the first test, but fail the second one which is just like the first one.

Again, if you have nothing to hide showing someone their corrected work shouldn't be a issue. Also hard to use the "didn't study" "didn't have what it takes" "didn't have the flying skills" when the same person already had a college degree, had a great average and went on to breeze through their PPL, IFR, SES, CPL in tailwheel aircraft and later landed flying jobs left and right.

Sorry, but as someone who has been there, done that and got the very expensive T shirt, I'm calling BS.

[JoNvAn]

Anyone got offer from Confederation College Aviation Flight Management Program?

[SpeedChecks]

Anyone got offer from Confederation College Aviation Flight Management Program?

Yes sir! super stoked to get started!

[sampsonmcd]

Anyone got offer from Confederation College Aviation Flight Management Program?

I read they only make offers to Ontario residents first.

[SuperchargedRS]

You couldn't figure out how to get around the ON resident issue?

[JasonE]

My daughter received her offer today!

[JoNvAn]

Congratulations to Censo and JasonE.
I got my offer As well.
Did you guys apply for Sault and Seneca as well?

[Greysierra]

I never went to Confed, but I live & flew out of YQT for years. I got my licenses privately and went to university.

The one thing I can say is that pretty much all of the grads get jobs right away. I don't think many private schools can say that. Employers no they're getting a known quantity. If my kids want to follow me into aviation, I'd tell them to go to Confed.

I heard Confed is getting rid of floats/skis and doing IFR training instead. Is this true?

Very sad to say that after this season, the float program will be suspended indefinitely. Unfortunately, it is very unlikely that this option will ever make a return. Due to poor management decisions (IMO), the cost and logistics of providing the float rating has become prohibitive.

Below is the posted College release...

Instrument Flight Rating (IFR) in Progress
(February, 16 2016) - We are in the process of implementing a new Instrument Flight Rating (IFR) in the curriculum of the Flight Management Program. This certification is required for careers in the industry. Up until now, graduates had to seek this additional rating to become qualified to fly with any of the major carriers. To achieve this, we must upgrade our fleet of aircraft and make a significant investment in simulation equipment...

Subsequently, we find it necessary to suspend the float training component of the program in the summer of 2017. After the IFR implementation, we will explore the opportunity to again offer float training in a sustainable model.

Congrats to those who have received offers.

[flybmw]

Anyone got offer from Confederation College Aviation Flight Management Program?

Wait listed here. Does anyone know much about that? I'm trying to judge my odds of getting in. I'm from out of province though, I read they only make offers to Ontario residents first.

Doubt that is true. I received an offer right away. Not a resident of Ontario.

[sampsonmcd]

Anyone got offer from Confederation College Aviation Flight Management Program?

Wait listed here. Does anyone know much about that? I'm trying to judge my odds of getting in. I'm from out of province though, I read they only make offers to Ontario residents first.

Doubt that is true. I received an offer right away. Not a resident of Ontario.

Strange..I called them the other day afterwards and they confirmed that its indeed only Ontario Residents haha. Regardless, I got into Seneca instead so I'll be going there. They seem to have a pretty decent program. The new facilities in Peterborough are pretty incredible.

http://www.senecacollege.ca/campuses/36 ... erborough/

[awitzke]

It's not hard to become a resident. It takes half a day of driving around and filling out some paperwork. Seems like a silly rule.

[SuperchargedRS]

I never went to Confed, but I live & flew out of YQT for years. I got my licenses privately and went to university.

The one thing I can say is that pretty much all of the grads get jobs right away. I don't think many private schools can say that. Employers no they're getting a known quantity. If my kids want to follow me into aviation, I'd tell them to go to Confed.

I heard Confed is getting rid of floats/skis and doing IFR training instead. Is this true?

Very sad to say that after this season, the float program will be suspended indefinitely. Unfortunately, it is very unlikely that this option will ever make a return. Due to poor management decisions (IMO), the cost and logistics of providing the float rating has become prohibitive.

Below is the posted College release...

Instrument Flight Rating (IFR) in Progress
(February, 16 2016) - We are in the process of implementing a new Instrument Flight Rating (IFR) in the curriculum of the Flight Management Program. This certification is required for careers in the industry. Up until now, graduates had to seek this additional rating to become qualified to fly with any of the major carriers. To achieve this, we must upgrade our fleet of aircraft and make a significant investment in simulation equipment...

Subsequently, we find it necessary to suspend the float training component of the program in the summer of 2017. After the IFR implementation, we will explore the opportunity to again offer float training in a sustainable model.

Congrats to those who have received offers.

Well that completely puts a fork in that "school"

What a joke, I mean come on let's be realistic, where is a new low time greenhorn confed grad more likely to find himself, in a sea/ski plane in the bush, or flying IFR. Seems confed is still trying to sell the kiddies on that 0-airline golden ticket.




Guessing they still have a non pilot guy as the dean running the aviation program?
Great when the folks running the aviation show can't even fly a 152, let alone have any experience as a working pilot