Is it rare for a ppl student to solo with ten hours or less?

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Is it rare for a ppl student to solo with ten hours or less?

Post by KGM » Sat May 07, 2016 11:52 am

I just started training and I am landing and taking off unassisted after five hours.

My instructor says I am doing well, but I think not and feel like he's pulling my chain a bit. I take compliments poorly and often feel they sarcastic. I plan on working harder to make sure I solo at the ten hour mark in either case.

What I want to know is the typical training schedule for students so I judge how well I am doing objectively. Will I solo on schedule?

Thanks.
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Re: Is it rare for a ppl student to solo with ten hours or l

Post by ZBBYLW » Sat May 07, 2016 12:16 pm

It depends on many things. Sometimes people come in with a good skill base (glider pilot, their dad had an airplane etc..) with good motorskills (maybe they have a motorbike, or mountain bike etc..) and are really good at hand/feet type skills. I was ready to solo at about 5 hours but then we had a week of strong x-winds so we left the circuit and worked on a few other skills to come back and solo at 10 hours. Other times some students take 25-30 hours (though some of that time would be spent outside the circuit to give them a bit of a break.

Trust your instructor. He/she won't want you to bend an airplane and will only send you out if he feels confident in your skills and decision making ability.
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Re: Is it rare for a ppl student to solo with ten hours or l

Post by PilotDAR » Sat May 07, 2016 1:50 pm

Your stated goal is the PPL, and worthy that is. A step along the way is going solo, but it is a step, not the goal. Whether you have gone solo yet does not directly affect your learning. Keep learning in any case. If you should be solo, you will be, but that is not the only important thing.

Take off and landing are important, but five hours of them is too, a step, and a small one - in the big picture of PPL, and building experience afterward. When you have thousands of hours you may see the value of those early learned landings just a little differently.

If you're satisfied with your instructor, follow their advice, and trust in their wisdom. If you go solo too early, or int he wrong conditions, and something goes wrong, it'll set you way back...
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Re: Is it rare for a ppl student to solo with ten hours or l

Post by Beefitarian » Sat May 07, 2016 2:22 pm

Does the plane have any electric things?
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Re: Is it rare for a ppl student to solo with ten hours or l

Post by Schooner69A » Sat May 07, 2016 4:54 pm

Although things have changed considerably in the intervening years, my brother soloed in under five hours. I soloed at the seven hour mark. Now, given that I'm a MUCH better pilot than he is, so you can see that the hours at which you solo are immaterial. Your instructor will know when you're ready.
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Re: Is it rare for a ppl student to solo with ten hours or l

Post by photofly » Sat May 07, 2016 5:21 pm

if you look at the front of your PTR, you will see there's a list of exercises TC expects you to have been taught prior to first solo. They are:

Stalls
Spins
Spiral dives
Engine failure in the circuit
Overshoots
Crosswind Landings
Runway changes
Communication failures
Emergency procedures

Your instructor has to put his or her signature to confirm you've been taught each one of them.

If you can demonstrate a basic level of competence with all those within 5, 7 or 10 hours of training as well as fly a competent circuit safely avoiding other traffic and any wake turbulence issues, while complying with ATC instructions (if you have ATC) then go for it, I say.
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Re: Is it rare for a ppl student to solo with ten hours or l

Post by PilotDAR » Sat May 07, 2016 6:45 pm

Your instructor has to put his or her signature to confirm you've been taught each one of them.
And with that important thought, I ask the question: Is the instructor to sign because they affirm the student has been taught, or because the student has demonstrated a level of proficiency appropriate to solo?
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Post by Beefitarian » Sat May 07, 2016 7:11 pm

I am going to say it is pretty rare.

Does anyone know a pilot under 60 years old that soloed with 10 hours or less?
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Re:

Post by Scuderia » Sat May 07, 2016 8:15 pm

Beefitarian wrote:I am going to say it is pretty rare.

Does anyone know a pilot under 60 years old that soloed with 10 hours or less?
I know personally around a dozen, almost 10 years ago. (We were 17 and 18 year olds, PPL through cadets.)

----
Edit: Granted, several of us had a glider licence but there were a few without.
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Re: Is it rare for a ppl student to solo with ten hours or l

Post by photofly » Sat May 07, 2016 8:44 pm

Current RCAF training (provided under contract by civilian instructors to the TC syllabus) has first solo at 14 hours. At least, if you haven't reached the required standard by then you don't get any extra chances.
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Re:

Post by FL-510 » Sun May 08, 2016 6:27 am

Beefitarian wrote:I am going to say it is pretty rare.

Does anyone know a pilot under 60 years old that soloed with 10 hours or less?

I just sent out a guy solo this week, he had 7.2 total hours. Specific conditions to obtain this though; 1- He built the plane with his dad (rv7a) 2- he toured the entire country last summer, about 50 flying hours with his old man 3- Excellent motor skills / hands on type of guy. 4- Uncontrolled, low traffic airport.

It is still possible, but I would say it's a 1 or 2 percent type of thing. I used to work at a large flight school, solo range was 15-20 hours....
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Re: Is it rare for a ppl student to solo with ten hours or l

Post by gwagen » Sun May 08, 2016 7:30 am

Way back in the day and I mean 1953 way back, a local kid soloed at 2 hours.

His instructor said he had a natural ability to fly the plane and just let him go on his own.

Mind you this was in the middle of winter in a J3 Cub on skis.

Now if you thought that was interesting it gets better. On the take off climb, which is out over a lake, the engine spat a spark plug out loosing compression in that cylinder.

Anyone who has flown a 65hp cub knows that they aren't the most powerful at the best of times.

The kid had the sense to put the nose down, made the "impossible" turn and put her back down on the runway safe and sound.

They put another spark plug in and he was off again.

That doesn't happen anymore.

Story was reprinted in the local newspaper a few years ago.
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Re:

Post by Chris M » Sun May 08, 2016 8:55 am

Beefitarian wrote:I am going to say it is pretty rare.

Does anyone know a pilot under 60 years old that soloed with 10 hours or less?
*put hand up*

Did my pre-solo check ride at 5 hours but wasn't allowed to go up on my own until 8.
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Re: Is it rare for a ppl student to solo with ten hours or l

Post by trey kule » Sun May 08, 2016 8:56 am

Will I solo on schedule?
As far as civilian training goes, I think it was a poor decision on your instructor's part to talk with you about a schedule for solo.
As photo said, there are mandatory exercises, and then competency standards...then solo.
There is also the issue of the possability of a student hitting a learning plateau and the instructor having to delay the solo.

As to hours, nothing has really changed in the last 50 years in terms of competency. I constantly hear instructors stating how much more students must learn now..more regulations " scenario" based training. More airspace procedures...but the flight skills part has not changed for pre solo..

The military is not a fair comparison for a number or reasons.

So, forget about any schedule. Enjoy the training, and when it happens, enjoy a non eventful first solo....you will never forget it.
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Re: Is it rare for a ppl student to solo with ten hours or l

Post by photofly » Sun May 08, 2016 9:01 am

I think the military is a very fair comparison. Their training is provided at a civilian airfield, by civilian flight instructors certified by TC using the regular flight training guide. There was a job ad on here for Class 3 and up instructors a few months ago for the position.

They do however have very strict stage checks, and exceptionally motivated students.
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Re: Is it rare for a ppl student to solo with ten hours or l

Post by AuxBatOn » Sun May 08, 2016 9:14 am

Unless things changed since I went through, PFT doesn't use TC's training guide. Standards are different and training is much different. TC certified instructors, yes. But operating under military rules.

And it's more a screening than training per se.
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Re: Is it rare for a ppl student to solo with ten hours or l

Post by trey kule » Sun May 08, 2016 9:19 am

I think the military is a very fair comparison.
Then this:

' they do however.....

Yep. You have clearly made your point that they are comparable..exactly the same. :smt040

There are some other differences as well that make a comparison rather difficult, but as that is not really the topic of this thread, I will leave you with your opinion..

IMHO, "scheduling" a student for solo is not a good practice , and the original post is one of the reasons why.......think about why someone would give two hoots about this if their instructor never put it intheir head. Pressure now on the student to perform? Possibly letting them go prematurely to meet the schedule. Dissapointment if the solo is delayed.
IMO wrong to mention this to a student.

And, the military time is a CT limitation, not a schedule. If you think the training is comparable I think you might just not understand how the mil program works.
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Re: Is it rare for a ppl student to solo with ten hours or l

Post by Beefitarian » Sun May 08, 2016 10:04 am

trey kule wrote:
Will I solo on schedule?
As far as civilian training goes, I think it was a poor decision on your instructor's part to talk with you about a schedule for solo.
I hope you are kidding Trey. The instructor told him he was doing well.

He got the solo under 10 hours from somewhere else.

I especially like the guy who's cadet buddies soloed under 10 after getting a glider license. Because somehow those hours don't count.

I guess I'm wrong and if you can't solo by 10 hours you should quit flying.
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Re: Is it rare for a ppl student to solo with ten hours or l

Post by Big Pistons Forever » Sun May 08, 2016 10:09 am

For my students, the range of times to the ready for the first solo point, is 2.2 hrs to 27.3 hrs.

The 2.2 hr guy was 17 years old. His old man had a Beaver, C 185 and SuperCub which were flown year around on wheels skis and floats. His father was also an X RCAF QFI. The kid probably had over a 1000 un offical hours, all under the tutelage of a hard ass X Military instructor. My CFI would not let me actually send him solo until he had 5 hours because he was afraid TC would freak out.

The 27 hour guy was 76 when he started his flying training. He was my all time favorite students as he just loved being up in the air and was so enthusiastic and happy to be learning to fly. He improved on every lesson, it just took a bit longer than others.

Looking over 28 years of flight training, full and part time I found that as I got more experience the time to solo increased but the time to PPL flight test decreased and the flight test scores increased. This is because I realized how important making sure that the foundation flying skills were properly and thoroughly taught and the student could consistently perform them to a satisfactory standard. Rushing through the EX 1 to 9 lesson plans in a rush to get to the circuit will always come back and bite the student.

Finally I wish to point out that the GA fatal accident rate per 100,000 flight hours in 1950 was almost 4 times what it is today. That leads me to believe that those who think that flight instructing was so great back in the day, maybe looking through rose coloured glassed.
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Re: Is it rare for a ppl student to solo with ten hours or l

Post by 5x5 » Sun May 08, 2016 10:52 am

Big Pistons Forever wrote:Looking over 28 years of flight training, full and part time I found that as I got more experience the time to solo increased but the time to PPL flight test decreased and the flight test scores increased. This is because I realized how important making sure that the foundation flying skills were properly and thoroughly taught and the student could consistently perform them to a satisfactory standard. Rushing through the EX 1 to 9 lesson plans in a rush to get to the circuit will always come back and bite the student.
I agree completely with BPF on this. The time to solo has zero bearing in the long run. And often, undue concern about it is in itself a detriment to the overall quality of your training. It's sad how many students seem to get hours and hours of circuit time before solo simply because they didn't do enough time getting basic airspeed and attitude flying nailed.
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Re: Is it rare for a ppl student to solo with ten hours or l

Post by Beefitarian » Sun May 08, 2016 10:58 am

I did not want to embarrass the rest of you losers, but when I tried to go for a fam flight I was so good, I had to give the chief instructor a partial fail on an impromptu Commercial license/instrument ride I sprung on her.

Under my expert tutelage she eventually became Canada's number 1 instructor often sending her students solo after fifteen minutes.
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Re: Is it rare for a ppl student to solo with ten hours or l

Post by photofly » Sun May 08, 2016 11:31 am

trey kule wrote:
I think the military is a very fair comparison.
Then this:

' they do however.....

Yep. You have clearly made your point that they are comparable..exactly the same. :smt040
And you have clearly missed the point. Even wiith the most motivated students, and even with the most closely monitored training, 14 hours to solo is considered appropriate. The reason the comparison is valid is the syllabus is the same. There is no reason that civilian training for the motivated student should expect to be either much slower or much faster.

A pilot from the uk I flew with who had done basic training with the RAF told me that they were expected to solo at 9 hours. But that was 9 hours playing follow-my-leader around the circuit and zero hours outside the circuit at that point.
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Re: Is it rare for a ppl student to solo with ten hours or l

Post by trey kule » Sun May 08, 2016 1:21 pm

I think I have a fairly good understanding.

1. the syllabus is not the same.

2. The 14 hours is not a syllabus training time.

In any event, you may have the last word as this is wasted thread drift.

And I stand by my original comment, do required exercises. Skill level to the required standard..Go solo, So many variables, but somehow I never seem to read that instructor competence is one of them.
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Re: Is it rare for a ppl student to solo with ten hours or l

Post by photofly » Sun May 08, 2016 1:40 pm

I do enjoy your "you may have the last say, except for the following things I want to say" :-)
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Re: Is it rare for a ppl student to solo with ten hours or l

Post by PilotDAR » Sun May 08, 2016 2:05 pm

My first first solo was unscheduled, and indeed a shock to me when sprung on me, as it was in a brand new C 152, the very first in Canada, which I only booked out, as I was certain I would not go that day. Good job on the instructor for keeping me on my toes.

My second first solo was scheduled, and I was a bit unhappy about that. I was told the week before it would happen, and had butterflies as I began that lesson. It worked out okay, but I would rather that the judgement to send me be based upon skills demonstrated that lesson, rather than a week earlier. That said, my instructor did know what he was doing.

I really like BPF's observation, more clearly presented than my earlier post. Get the basic skills firmly ingrained, rather than rushing to a premature solo. One of the important things about piloting, is the need to learn patience. So what if you want to go solo, if you're not completely ready, you're not ready. "Get home itis" must be trained out, and this is a good first step. Learn the patience....
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