What would you do?

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Speedalive
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What would you do?

Post by Speedalive »

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Last edited by Speedalive on Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

photofly
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Re: What would you do?

Post by photofly »

If I go to Mount Royal ... the instructors will probably be better
Better than what? The oh-so-great instructors at one college screwed you for 80 hours and more than two years of your life without so much as a rec permit to show for it. You flew less than one hour per week on a full time programme yet you want to go back for more of the same. I have to admire your faith in these places.
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lownslow
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Re: What would you do?

Post by lownslow »

Speedalive wrote:I have just under 80 hours and no PPL.
Jeebus. Someone let someone down here and in a big way. Step one is to really take a good long look at the situation and figure out what the hell happened. Are you part of the reason you got to this point? Many of the formal programs are pretty well structured and eighty plus hours to PPL comes off as extremely suspicious to me.

Maybe it's all them but take a good long look in the mirror before moving forward.
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MrWings
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Re: What would you do?

Post by MrWings »

lownslow wrote: Many of the formal programs are pretty well structured and eighty plus hours to PPL comes off as extremely suspicious to me.
They are usually well structured but there is onus on the student to make flight arrangements and progress as quickly as their schedule allows.

Speedalive, you need to treat your training like a job. You need to commit to flying on a regular basis (4-5 times a week or more). If your personal life doesn't allow that, then this is just going to keep dragging out.

Perhaps the real question you are asking is if an aviation diploma is worth it? Maybe someone more involved in recent airline hiring can answer that. From my understanding, it all depends on demand. When demand is low, post-secondary education becomes criterion that may put you ahead of those without. When demand is high, it may not even come into the decision making process.
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lownslow
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Re: What would you do?

Post by lownslow »

^What he said.

Seems to me the best way to pick up the pieces is to do it privately. Finish your PPL first and foremost at a good school with a good instructor, that should put you around the 90-95 hour mark. Next come up with an efficient plan to meet all of your commercial requirements save for total time and knock that out. The two hundred hour requirement is for sign-off only; your exam and flight test can be done at half that or in your case, nearly as soon as you're ready. Whatever time out of 200TT is left after jumping through all the CPL hoops you can use to work on your instrument or multi ratings. Finish the commercial, get a VFR job, use that to fund your Group I Instrument Rating.

This will take a significant amount of planning, monitoring and self discipline but plenty have gone this way before you so it's not impossible.
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Speedalive
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Re: What would you do?

Post by Speedalive »

photofly wrote: Better than what? The oh-so-great instructors at one college screwed you for 80 hours and more than two years of your life without so much as a rec permit to show for it. You flew less than one hour per week on a full time programme yet you want to go back for more of the same. I have to admire your faith in these places.
The instructors didn't screw me. A lot of it was my fault and I've certainly learned some lessons. What I'm referring to is how the instructors at MRU are paid salary so they might be more willing to help just because they can and want to. I could be very wrong though in saying this. I've never trained privately before so that's just based on hear-say.
lownslow wrote: Jeebus. Someone let someone down here and in a big way. Step one is to really take a good long look at the situation and figure out what the hell happened. Are you part of the reason you got to this point? Many of the formal programs are pretty well structured and eighty plus hours to PPL comes off as extremely suspicious to me.

Maybe it's all them but take a good long look in the mirror before moving forward.
It's a long story... I am definitely part of the reason that I'm in this situation, but a large part of it was out of my control. Feel free to PM for the full story... It's an incredibly frustrating one.
MrWings wrote: Perhaps the real question you are asking is if an aviation diploma is worth it?
I've been told that Air Canada has been placing a high preference on those with a degree/aviation diploma by a friend of mine who's there. Is that accurate?
lownslow wrote: Seems to me the best way to pick up the pieces is to do it privately. Finish your PPL first and foremost at a good school with a good instructor, that should put you around the 90-95 hour mark. Next come up with an efficient plan to meet all of your commercial requirements save for total time and knock that out. The two hundred hour requirement is for sign-off only; your exam and flight test can be done at half that or in your case, nearly as soon as you're ready. Whatever time out of 200TT is left after jumping through all the CPL hoops you can use to work on your instrument or multi ratings. Finish the commercial, get a VFR job, use that to fund your Group I Instrument Rating.
This is what my CFI was telling me before I left the college. It seems like a great plan and I'm sure as hell motivated to finish my training as fast as I can, regardless of the route I take, as I've been through enough crap. The only thing I'm worried about are job prospects down the road should I choose not to go the college route. I'm aware that education means jack all to the smaller operators that I'll find myself flying for at the beginning. But when it comes to AC, WS, TS, Cathay, etc, how much importance is placed on having some form of post-secondary education? I supposed I could get a degree online through Athabasca or something, but I don't know.
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maturepilot83
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Re: What would you do?

Post by maturepilot83 »

Speedalive wrote:I left one of the big three flight college programs in Ontario after being there for 2.5 years. I fell really far behind for many reasons, some personal, some just plain stupid (I'll spare the details because I don't feel like writing a novel). Anyhow, I was so far behind that I was looking at an additional 1-2 years to finish my training realistically on top of the just under 3 years I already put in and I can't afford that nor do I want to do that. I have just under 80 hours and no PPL. I decided to move back home so I could work to pay back some student debt and finish my PPL in a handful of flights rather than waiting until April and then repeating an entire semester to repeat our summer flying semester. I just need to get checked out on a 172 and then prove that I know what I'm doing. I also have all of my PPL and CPL ground school done which will save some more money and time. Might as well get my night rating done too.

What I'm looking for some guidance on is what to do for my CPL/MIFR training. I have a few options. Either I go to Mount Royal and do a further 2 years of education and it costs a crazy 70k (which could be reduced if I transferred some classes and took credit for prior experience), or I just plow ahead and finish everything privately. There's pros and cons to both. If I go to Mount Royal, it takes a bit longer to complete my training, but there's so many more opportunities available (eg: Jazz Pathways program, Air Sprint award, etc), the instructors will probably be better and I'll get an aviation diploma out of it which will help out the resume a bit. If I go privately, there aren't that many opportunities post-grad, I won't have much to show for education on my resume other than my failed attempt to get an aviation diploma in Ontario, etc. However, it will be cheaper, I can get training done much quicker and therefore making money quicker.. The pro/cons list goes on forever.

At the end of the day, my goal is to be an airline pilot. What do you think would be the best option that would give me a better chance at achieving that?

Thanks :)
Avoid juggling two incomplete things at once.

Get the training done as a walk-in student, or purchase your own plane (cheaper). You're a long ways away from Air Canada so you can hold off on a degree until your training situation is sorted out and you have some time under your belt.

Get the big rocks (training) out of the way first. The degree is insignificant at this point. There are opportunities post-secondary for a degree/diploma, one of them being via correspondence. Plenty of online options available ..
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maturepilot83
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Re: What would you do?

Post by maturepilot83 »

Speedalive wrote: The instructors didn't screw me. A lot of it was my fault and I've certainly learned some lessons.
Well done recognizing and admitting this. Work hard, buddy. You'll get there!
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Rookie50
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Re: What would you do?

Post by Rookie50 »

A generalized answer, if I may......

I think, for many, many people, (not all situations ) a formal degree is a complete waste of a lot of time and even more money.

It's a (dumb) qualifying tool used by large organizations that can't otherwise gauge people -- but so often what is learned on the degree has zero relevance to the real world or applied in a professional career. Again, not always, obviously.

I could be wrong, but I believe in aviation, as in my industry, working in the industry at a lower level to start, even for dirt cheap, will teach you far more than a degree, taught by academics, often who have never gained success in the real world. All of that for astounding costs these days.

For context, I'm a college dropout who then founded a successful business. Along the way early, when success was still touch and go, but I had several years experience, I interviewed with a prestigious organization. Their only question was, do you have a degree, which I thought then (and still do) was a ridiculous question with my experience to date.

End of interview, which was the best outcome for me, as my business then took off.

A lot of folks here complain incessantly about bonds and low pay as an entry pilot. They, in my view, aren't getting the big picture, and that is the invaluable experience and seasoning that leads to the big iron (if that's your goal).

The same people think paying 100k for a degree is just fine, that adds nothing to needed teaching and experience.

My 0.02 --- good luck.
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