New instrument rating flight test guide

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photofly
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New instrument rating flight test guide

Post by photofly » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:39 am

As of last month...

All IFR rides and IPCs require certified approach GPS now.

Curiously, on your initial ride you can do an LNAV non-precision approach, and an ILS.
On a subsequent proficiency check you have to do one RNAV approach and one non-precision approach, so you can't do an ILS.
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fixnfly
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Re: New instrument rating flight test guide

Post by fixnfly » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:52 am

TC also states on page 22 to initiate the missed single engine. Apparently it was a mistake in the flight test guide and that missed approaches should always include both engines.

"At a safe height of 1000 feet AGL or higher, the examiner will simulate an engine failure. The candidate will
identify the failed engine, complete the engine failure drill in accordance with the emergency checklist, and
subsequently execute an approach during one of the Item 8 approaches to a safe landing or execute a
missed approach if the required visual runway references are not obtained, with the power setting of one
engine at flight idle or zero thrust,. The candidate will control the aeroplane solely with reference to flight
instruments"
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Re: New instrument rating flight test guide

Post by 5x5 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:30 pm

There are a bunch of inconsistencies and statements that require some explanation related to this new guide. It's certainly going to be a topic of much discussion in upcoming Pilot Examiner workshops and hopefully some clarification will be forthcoming. For the moment though, it certainly is confusing.
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Re: New instrument rating flight test guide

Post by Scout44 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 5:12 pm

Wow, very interesting. I just passed my initial in Jan without GPS on board. Looks like I may have been among the last :shock:
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Re: New instrument rating flight test guide

Post by MrAviator19 » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:24 am

Good to know as I'm currently studying for IFR. :smt023
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rob-air
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Re: New instrument rating flight test guide

Post by rob-air » Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:56 am

I am might be wrong but according to the new FTG you could use an LPV to show off your ILS skills! So on an initial you could do a non presicion app and a lpv. What realy bugs me is the need of a aproved gps equiped ac for the test.
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Re: New instrument rating flight test guide

Post by photofly » Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:22 am

Previously also, an LPV approach could be used instead of an ILS. It was one approach with vertical guidance, and one non-precision approach. The same is true now, but now at least one must be GPS based.
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Kirk: This is a dangerous mission. Likely, one of us will die. The landing party will be me, Spock, McCoy, and Ensign Ricky.
Ensign Ricky: Aw, crap.

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Re: New instrument rating flight test guide

Post by angry inch » Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:15 am

I have heard a couple "rumours" that the Redbird Sims no longer qualify for doing IPC's.... Anybody in the know on this one?? I wasn't a huge fan of the "Tilt-A-Whirl"... but they provided an affordable option for training & renewals.
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Re: New instrument rating flight test guide

Post by gooseinbc » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:09 am

angry inch wrote:I have heard a couple "rumours" that the Redbird Sims no longer qualify for doing IPC's.... Anybody in the know on this one?? I wasn't a huge fan of the "Tilt-A-Whirl"... but they provided an affordable option for training & renewals.
Yup, redbirds are now out. For example, currently training in BC, and now nobody can get renewals done at Pro Ifr. Only school around here that can do them now is PFC with their ALsims..
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Re: New instrument rating flight test guide

Post by 5x5 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:22 pm

gooseinbc wrote:Yup, redbirds are now out. For example, currently training in BC, and now nobody can get renewals done at Pro Ifr. Only school around here that can do them now is PFC with their ALsims..
Not necessarily so. It seems someone in TC out West may have made a hasty and incorrect decision. Quite a bit of confusion right now, so wait and see the final outcome.
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Re: New instrument rating flight test guide

Post by trey kule » Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:50 pm

Does this mean that all aircraft used for IF rides will have to have a certified GPS and the data base current?
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Re: New instrument rating flight test guide

Post by photofly » Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:09 pm

Yes
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Ensign Ricky: Aw, crap.

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Re: New instrument rating flight test guide

Post by CpnCrunch » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:02 pm

Is an LNAV+V acceptable for a non-precision approach, and am I right in thinking you don't need to check the CDFA numbers in the chart if you have the advisory glideslope? I assume this is the case, as the FTG essentially says essentially this. It just seems a little too easy.
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Re: New instrument rating flight test guide

Post by praveen4143 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:05 am

To answer part of your question, @CpnCrunch, LNAV+V is acceptable for the non-precision approach. I did that plus an ILS on my initial a few months ago.
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Re: New instrument rating flight test guide

Post by photofly » Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:26 am

CpnCrunch wrote:Is an LNAV+V acceptable for a non-precision approach, and am I right in thinking you don't need to check the CDFA numbers in the chart if you have the advisory glideslope? I assume this is the case, as the FTG essentially says essentially this. It just seems a little too easy.
I thought Garmin gives you an advisory glideslope for bare LNAV approaches, too. You can always follow an advisory glideslope, but you still need to check the numbers and avoid busting any step-down minima on the way.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Kirk: This is a dangerous mission. Likely, one of us will die. The landing party will be me, Spock, McCoy, and Ensign Ricky.
Ensign Ricky: Aw, crap.

CpnCrunch
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Re: New instrument rating flight test guide

Post by CpnCrunch » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:00 am

photofly wrote: I thought Garmin gives you an advisory glideslope for bare LNAV approaches, too. You can always follow an advisory glideslope, but you still need to check the numbers and avoid busting any step-down minima on the way.
Yes, Garmin does give advisory glideslope for LNAV approaches, hence my comment. I know you need to verify any step down altitudes, but it makes it easier by removing the need to check against the altitudes in the glideslope table. I was just doing some practice yesterday and it's amazing how much easier it is than an NDB approach. It kind of defeats the purpose of doing a "non-precision approach without vertical guidance".
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Re: New instrument rating flight test guide

Post by photofly » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:21 am

CpnCrunch wrote: Yes, Garmin does give advisory glideslope for LNAV approaches, hence my comment. I know you need to verify any step down altitudes, but it makes it easier by removing the need to check against the altitudes in the glideslope table. I was just doing some practice yesterday and it's amazing how much easier it is than an NDB approach. It kind of defeats the purpose of doing a "non-precision approach without vertical guidance".
You can use the autopilot to fly the holding pattern for you, too.

It's tempting to think of "the point" of an instrument rating flight test as being terribly difficult difficult and a rite of passage, and therefore anything that makes it "easier" is cheating. But on the other hand, if all you've ever practiced is NDB approaches with an ADF you'd not have any idea about how to set up the GPS or use and monitor the autopilot in the hold. So not that easy, under those circumstances.

Programming a hold and hand flying an NDB approach - these are just two among many useful IFR skills. Moving towards the second decade of the twenty first century it's appropriate to test the skills that people are going to use most often, rather than the ones left over from the middle of the last century. Don't you think?
---------- ADS -----------
  
Kirk: This is a dangerous mission. Likely, one of us will die. The landing party will be me, Spock, McCoy, and Ensign Ricky.
Ensign Ricky: Aw, crap.

CpnCrunch
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Re: New instrument rating flight test guide

Post by CpnCrunch » Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:29 am

photofly wrote: You can use the autopilot to fly the holding pattern for you, too.
I think only the G1000 has that feature, but just using the OBS feature on the 430/530 makes holds pretty easy too.

It would be nice to be able to rent a plane with a working autopilot.
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Re: New instrument rating flight test guide

Post by final28 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:38 am

Current Garmin 650/750s also allow you to paint a hold, sets up the entry, and lets you fly it on autopilot.
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