Filing IFR with no alternate

[ThatArmyGuy]

I just wanted to seek clarification from the masses of AvCanada on the subject. It is my opinion that as a Canadian pilot flying a Canadian commercially registered aircraft for a company operating on a Canadian OC is required to file an alternate.

I can only find two exceptions to the rule:

CAR 604.48 - authorized to do so with special permission
CAR 721.19 - Foreign Air Operators

In other words, a pilot in their own private aircraft with an IFR must file an alternate. Agreed? Any other special circumstances that people have come across?


TAG

[ahramin]

There is a CAR requiring IFR aircraft to carry fuel for an alternate. There is a CAR requiring the weather at that alternate to meet certain requirements. I don't know of any CAR requiring you to file that alternate on your flight plan. I don't even know of a CAR requiring you to file a flight plan.

[photofly]

Sure you do: Requirement to file a flight plan for any IFR flight: 602.73(1). Failure to comply attracts a fine of up to $3000 for an individual and $15,000 for a corporation. Per offence.

Requirement for an IFR alternate to be filed: 602.122. Fine for failure to comply $1000, $5000 for a corporation.

Basic stuff, people.

[ahramin]

Well there you go. Thanks photofly. Since they went to the justice site I haven't been looking up CARs unless I'm on a computer but I just tried that one on the iphone and it seems to work fine. I'll have to unlazy now.

[FlyingMonkey]

Filing an IFR fp without an alternate can be done if the operator has the approved op spec.

[ba31pilot]

As was mentioned, you can file a no alternate IFR flight plan. However, you need Ops Spec 83 to be approved on your OC. Here is the link to the wording:

https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/ ... 3-1338.htm

[sidestick stirrer]

I like the legality of filing your destination as your alternate, too.
It has been done.

[FlyingMonkey]

I like the legality of filing your destination as your alternate, too.
It has been done.

I don't believe that is the case.
Can you find some documentation to support this?

[goingnowherefast]

I hope it's legal. I do it all the time. The rules only state what the forecast weather has to be and that it can't be the same as your destination.

[BingBong]

NAIFR is an airline only ops spec. Nav Canada defines NAIFR (No Alternate IFR) as ceiling at or above 1,500 feet, visibility at or above six statute miles or ceiling at or above 2,500 feet, visibility at or above three statute miles. Additionally, there can be no forecast (including PROB) of thunderstorms, freezing rain or freezing drizzle.

But here is the CAR to back it up.

725.35 No Alternate Aerodrome - IFR Flight

For an air operator of aeroplanes to qualify to conduct a flight under IFR without designating an alternate aerodrome on the flight plan, the following standard shall be met:
(amended 2000/06/01)

(1) Area of Operations

(a) for flights not more than six hours of scheduled flight time from the aerodrome of intended landing, the following requirements shall be met:
(amended 2006/06/30)

(i) the take-off aerodrome shall be situated within the North American continent, the Caribbean islands or Bermuda;
(amended 2006/06/30)

(ii) the aerodromes of intended landing authorized for these "No Alternate IFR" flights shall meet the requirements of subsection (3) below; and
(amended 2006/06/30)

(iii) provided the requirements of subsections (2), (3), (4), (5) and (6) are met, the pilot-in-command may re-file "No Alternate IFR" on flights to a destination aerodrome in Canada, regardless of the location of the departure aerodrome, when within six hours of the scheduled destination aerodrome.
(amended 2006/06/30)

(b) for flights with more than six hours but not more than eight hours of scheduled flight time from the aerodrome of intended landing, the following requirements shall be met:
(amended 2006/06/30; no previous version)

(i) the take-off aerodrome shall be situated within the North American continent;

(ii) the aerodrome of intended landing shall be situated within the North American continent except Mexico;

(iii) the aerodrome of intended landing shall be pre-approved by Transport Canada and listed in the air operator's company operations manual, subject to empirical data provided by the air operator to support the accuracy and efficiency of the specific aerodrome forecast (TAF) for the last three years;

(iv) the aerodrome of intended landing authorized for these no alternate IFR flights shall meet the requirements of subsection (3) below; and

(v) at a point between four and six hours from the aerodrome of intended landing, the PIC shall obtain confirmation from the air operator's operational control that the conditions at the aerodrome of intended landing still meet the provision of this standard.

(2) Weather Requirements

For at least one (1) hour before and until one (1) hour after the estimated time of arrival at the aerodrome of intended landing, there shall be, in respect of that aerodrome:
(amended 2000/06/01)

(a) no risk of fog or other restriction to visibility, including precipitation, forecast or reported, below 3 miles;

(b) no risk of thunderstorms isolated or otherwise forecast or reported;

(c) a forecast ceiling of at least 1,000 feet above FAF altitude and a visibility of at least 3 miles (using the FAF of the destination IFR approach with the second lowest useable limits), or a ceiling of at least 1,500 feet and a visibility of at least 6 miles; and
(amended 2006/06/30)

(d) no risk of freezing precipitation forecast or reported.
(amended 2000/06/01)

(3) Aerodrome of Intended Landing - Requirements

The aerodrome of intended landing shall be equipped with:

(a) at least two (2) separate runways each of which shall be operational and suitable for a safe landing for the aeroplane type, taking into consideration the approved operational limitations;

NOTE:

The reciprocal of one runway is not acceptable as the second runway.

(b) at least two useable and independent IFR approach aids and two independent and useable instrument approach procedures; and

(c) emergency or standby electrical power supply in support of the main electrical power supply used to operate all equipment and facilities that are essential to the safe landing of the aeroplane, whether such landing be by day or by night;

(4) Flight Dispatch Requirements

The Operation Control System shall be Type A or Type B (as applicable).

(5) Fuel Requirements

The minimum fuel required for a no alternate IFR flight plan must meet the requirements of sections 602.88 and 705.25 of the Canadian Aviation Regulations.
(amended 2000/06/01)

(6) Aerodrome Familiarization

Pilots shall be thoroughly familiar with all suitable diversionary aerodromes which are available (within the fuel and oil reserve carried) in respect of any flight operated on a "no alternate IFR" basis.

(7) Island Destination
(amended 2000/06/01; no previous version)

In addition, where the flight is to a destination aerodrome located on an island, the following standards shall be met:

(a) Minimum Fuel on Board Requirements

The minimum fuel to be carried on board an aeroplane shall include:

(i) taxi fuel,

(ii) fuel to destination,

(iii) contingency fuel, and

(iv) additional contingency fuel or enroute fuel reserve or remote destination reserve fuel to hold for two hours at 10,000 feet at holding fuel consumption after arriving overhead the destination aerodrome, whichever is the greater.

(b) Designated Alternate Aerodrome

An alternate aerodrome shall be designated in accordance with the requirements of CAR 602.122 and shall be maintained until a point, known for the purposes of this paragraph, as the point-of-no-return (PNR), on the selected route where the fuel required to reach the alternate aerodrome and hold at 1,500 feet above the alternate aerodrome for a period of 30 minutes at holding speed under standard temperature conditions is equal to the fuel required under paragraph (a) above.

(c) Weather Requirements

The following weather requirements shall apply:

(i) the weather minima applicable to the designated alternate aerodrome specified in accordance with paragraph (b) of this subsection meets the requirements of CAR 602.123,

(ii) the destination aerodrome is served by a terminal forecast valid from the time of take-off from the departure aerodrome until 2 hours after the estimated time of arrival (ETA) at the destination aerodrome,

(iii) during the period of 2 hours before ETA until 2 hours after ETA, there is, in respect of that aerodrome:

(A) a forecast ceiling of at least 1,000 feet above the anticipated approach Final Approach Fix (FAF) altitude and a visibility of at least 3 miles or a ceiling of at least 1,500 feet and a visibility of at least 6 miles,

(B) no risk of fog forecast or reported, below 3 miles,

(C) no other restrictions to visibility, including precipitation, forecast below 3 miles unless that restriction to visibility is forecast to be a PROB or TEMPO,

(D) no thunderstorms forecast unless forecast to be PROB or TEMPO, and

(E) no freezing precipitation forecast or reported,

NOTE:

Forecast conditions normally apply for the time period of 2 hours prior to ETA until 2 hours after ETA. Reported conditions apply for that portion of the flight that the designated alternate is maintained in accordance with paragraph (b) of this subsection and less than 2 hours from the ETA at the destination aerodrome.

(iv) hourly destination weather reports are obtained until reaching the PNR and if any forecast PROB or TEMPO condition is reported in two consecutive hourly reports, an updated destination forecast is obtained prior to proceeding beyond the PNR.

(d) Flight Dispatch Requirements

An efficient two-way point-to-point and ground-to-air communication system shall be established between dispatch agencies along the route and the aeroplane.

(e) Aerodrome Familiarization

Pilots shall be thoroughly familiar with the pertinent information for all suitable designated alternate aerodromes which are available during the flight within the fuel and oil reserve carried.

[CpnCrunch]

I hope it's legal. I do it all the time. The rules only state what the forecast weather has to be and that it can't be the same as your destination.

I suspect you're thinking of the origin as alternate, not destination as alternate.

[goingnowherefast]

I hope it's legal. I do it all the time. The rules only state what the forecast weather has to be and that it can't be the same as your destination.

I suspect you're thinking of the origin as alternate, not destination as alternate.

Ah, yes. You are correct.

[The Real Scudrunner]

next time your trucking along in the s@#* ask ATC to change your Alternate on your flight plan. You will get dead air for awhile followed by either "I don't know how to do that" or "um ya uhhhh ok standby...................................................................."

In summary its up to you to plan for your alternate and have enough gas on board. I have not filed an alternate many times, not on purpose just rushing and forgot to enter in in the flight plan. I had a ton of contingency fuel for multiple suitable airports but NavCanada doesn't police nor give a crap about it. Next time you go missed, they ask you what you want to do and where you want to go. (don't go missed, just go lower. Tell TC I said I you it was cool.)

[goingnowherefast]

(don't go missed, just go lower. Tell TC I said I you it was cool.)

This is probably the worst advice I've seen on this forum, and that's including another thread where it was suggested to work for free to build hours. That last sentence hurt my brain too.

I've been flying along in some real s@#* and discussing weather with Flight Service (also NavCanada employees). They were helping me find alternates in rapidly deteriorating, terrible weather.

[The Real Scudrunner]

Wow sense of humour much? If your dumb enough to think that, well maybe follow that "advice". Or should I have added an emoticon to help you understand such. pick your favorite.

So you talked to FSS to get weather at airports, good for you.