Ground briefing for PPL

[gopherblack]

Hi,

My flight school has about 25 hours of ground briefing time for PPL. Other schools like Harv's AIr have about 10 hours of ground brief time. Is 25 hours of ground brief normal? I'm flying 4-5 days a week and studying at home everyday in an effort to reduce costs as much as I can. Please note that I understand that your brain is less efficient while flying so ground briefing helps clear things out before and after the flight. However, I have more ground briefing time than flight time currently so I wanted to ask you guys if I shall expect that.

Thanks!

[PilotDAR]

I won't attempt to answer with a number relative to a standard - that's for someone more closely involved in a flight training organization. However, consider two factors: If the ground briefing is value added for you, it is learning time without the cost of the operation of the aircraft added on top. There have certainly been times when I've been up, and thinking to myself, "here is not the best place for an explanation, the plane is costing by the minute". I should have done more ground briefing first. And, it is not possible to impart all of the required wisdom to a new pilot within the minimums of a PPL curriculum. As long as the ground briefing is value added, and contributes to your learning in context, it's worth it. That does not mean that you should tolerate having your time wasted, or being taught things out of context/without foundation. So, as the briefing continues, ask yourself, is the instructor providing an answer to a question which was in m mind, or would have been on my close horizon?

[gopherblack]

I won't attempt to answer with a number relative to a standard - that's for someone more closely involved in a flight training organization. However, consider two factors: If the ground briefing is value added for you, it is learning time without the cost of the operation of the aircraft added on top. There have certainly been times when I've been up, and thinking to myself, "here is not the best place for an explanation, the plane is costing by the minute". I should have done more ground briefing first. And, it is not possible to impart all of the required wisdom to a new pilot within the minimums of a PPL curriculum. As long as the ground briefing is value added, and contributes to your learning in context, it's worth it. That does not mean that you should tolerate having your time wasted, or being taught things out of context/without foundation. So, as the briefing continues, ask yourself, is the instructor providing an answer to a question which was in m mind, or would have been on my close horizon?

The ground briefing for the first couple of hours has seemed redundant tbh. My instructor seems honest (too soon to be completely sure) and has a list of things that he questions me on before going up. We go over it quickly if I answer those questions correctly and to his satisfaction. However, I think I'll have a better judgement once I get to more complex exercises.

[CpnCrunch]

Most students with Harv's Air probably use their online ground school (pilottraining.ca), which has briefings for all the air exercises. If you read up on those before your flight, you'll need a lot less PGI/briefing time.

Even if you don't fly with Harv's Air, it's probably a good idea to use their online ground school (unless your school objects), as it's must cheaper, more efficient, and an overall much better learning tool than any "live" ground school. Each lesson comes in video/powerpoint/audio format, there's quizzes at the end of each topic and each chapter, and you can go back and review stuff as often as you like.

[5x5]

......as it's must cheaper, more efficient, and an overall much better learning tool than any "live" ground school.

Holy crap! You sound like you might be one of the Penners or else someone hired by them to advertise. More likely just someone who likes to express their own opinions as though they are facts. Do a bit of research into the comparison between on-line and face-to-face/classroom courses and you won't find anything like that kind of conclusion.

As an example of actual study into the comparison, here's a link to an article from the American Journal of Distance Education http://ccrc.tc.columbia.edu/publication ... oices.html.

And here's a quote from the summary presented in the above link with my highlights for emphasis.

Accordingly, most students preferred to take only “easy” academic subjects online; they preferred to take “difficult” or “important” subjects face-to-face.

Personally I certainly don't feel aviation groundschool courses are easy and although perhaps not difficult they certainly are complex and absolutely they are important.

[Stretcher]

Harv's charges you for the time spent with the instructor while they go through PGI with you. Any pre / post flight briefings are not usually charged. Even with that, I rarely see people with less then 15 hours charged throughout their training.

[photofly]

The original post was about ground brief, which is separate and distinct from ground school.

ground briefing before every training is required to satisfy 405.32:

No person shall commence a training flight unless the trainee has received from the flight instructor ( a ) a pre-flight briefing; and ( b ) where new flight exercises are to be conducted during the flight, preparatory ground instruction.

Failure to do so attracts a penalty of up $1000 for an individual or $5000 for a corporate entity. Per occurence.

Every rookie flight instructor should understand the importance of teaching or reviewing on the ground in advance of the flight what you hope the student to learn or achieve in the air. The time taken to do so is usually billed to the student, and rightly so. The length of time depends on the content of the lesson and the level of preparation of the student.

Just to reiterate: this has nothing to do with the ground school offered at pilottraining.ca or elsewhere.

[CpnCrunch]

The original post was about ground brief, which is separate and distinct from ground school.

As mentioned in my comment, the online ground school includes briefings for the *air exercises*. Now, I'm not saying you will get away with zero briefing, but if you're well prepared it should reduce the amount of ground briefing you'll need.

Just to reiterate: this has nothing to do with the ground school offered at pilottraining.ca or elsewhere.

Yes it does.

[CpnCrunch]

Holy crap! You sound like you might be one of the Penners or else someone hired by them to advertise. More likely just someone who likes to express their own opinions as though they are facts. Do a bit of research into the comparison between on-line and face-to-face/classroom courses and you won't find anything like that kind of conclusion.

LOL, no I'm not employed by Harv's Air. I just did my CPL ground school with them and was very impressed. It certainly beat the pants off all the "live" ground school I've done. Different people prefer different styles of learning. Some people might find the live groundschool better.

Personally I certainly don't feel aviation groundschool courses are easy and although perhaps not difficult they certainly are complex and absolutely they are important.

I didn't really find the CPL groundschool difficult. It's a lot of material, but it's just a matter of getting it all in your head. There are no particularly difficult concepts to grasp in there.

It looks like I've treaded on some people's toes...

[gopherblack]

The original post was about ground brief, which is separate and distinct from ground school.

ground briefing before every training is required to satisfy 405.32:

No person shall commence a training flight unless the trainee has received from the flight instructor ( a ) a pre-flight briefing; and ( b ) where new flight exercises are to be conducted during the flight, preparatory ground instruction.

Failure to do so attracts a penalty of up $1000 for an individual or $5000 for a corporate entity. Per occurence.

Every rookie flight instructor should understand the importance of teaching or reviewing on the ground in advance of the flight what you hope the student to learn or achieve in the air. The time taken to do so is usually billed to the student, and rightly so. The length of time depends on the content of the lesson and the level of preparation of the student.

Just to reiterate: this has nothing to do with the ground school offered at pilottraining.ca or elsewhere.

That really helps. Thanks!

[gopherblack]

Most students with Harv's Air probably use their online ground school (pilottraining.ca), which has briefings for all the air exercises. If you read up on those before your flight, you'll need a lot less PGI/briefing time.

Even if you don't fly with Harv's Air, it's probably a good idea to use their online ground school (unless your school objects), as it's must cheaper, more efficient, and an overall much better learning tool than any "live" ground school. Each lesson comes in video/powerpoint/audio format, there's quizzes at the end of each topic and each chapter, and you can go back and review stuff as often as you like.

Yeah I'm already enrolled in the ground school. I'm very impressed.

[5x5]

It looks like I've treaded on some people's toes...

No toes stepped on at all. However, this is a forum where people, mostly those without much experience, come to look for advice. When someone states a personal opinion as though it is a fact it can be potentially very misleading and as such really bugs me.

I just did my CPL ground school with them and was very impressed. It certainly beat the pants off all the "live" ground school I've done. Different people prefer different styles of learning. Some people might find the live groundschool better.

Once again your personal opinion is based on what - before your CPL groundschool you would have done exactly one other - your PPL. A sample of 1 has no relevance at all. And if you actually do any research, you will see that in fact the majority of people prefer live instruction - not "some" as you opine.

Online courses certainly have their place, but to suggest they are a "better learning tool than any live course" is ludicrous.

[photofly]

As mentioned in my comment, the online ground school includes briefings for the *air exercises*. Now, I'm not saying you will get away with zero briefing, but if you're well prepared it should reduce the amount of ground briefing you'll need.

Fair comment.

I would point out that online briefings for the air exercises provided by Harv's Air are going to match the way the exercises are taught by an instructor only at Harv's Air. All preparation is valuable but if we're looking purely to see how much we can save by shortening briefings, the instructor with whom a student is learning should be the lead contact for preparatory material.