Refer to thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=117121
I was the original author of I CAN'T LAND A C172 thread - and given how much those tips helped me, I would like to direct anyone struggling with landing to that thread! It WILL help you! I guarantee it.
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UPDATE
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Took a flight around 1700 - winds 310 @ 10 - gusting 15 - right hand circuit RWY 33.
stall horn blaring, kissed the runway 7 / 8 landings! One of them I even had to do a tight base and final to allow a Jazz flight to depart on time!
The best tips that worked were:
1) Raising the seat
2) Not touching the throttle on final , keeping airspeed between 70 - 80 (not dicking around with it as someone suggested)
3) When doing any correction, quickly correcting the other way, kind of like FLUTTERING the elevator, pull, push, pull, pull, pull, push, pull, to maintain the proper attitude
4) Looking at the midway point between the aircraft and end of runway
THANK YOU TO ALL THE CONTRIBUTORS OF THE "I CAN'T LAND A C172" thread SO MUCH FOR ALL YOUR TIPS! THEY REALLY REALLY helped me! & now I'm writing my PSTAR and doing my solo this week!!!
How To Land A C172 - Thread Reference!
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, Right Seat Captain, lilfssister, North Shore
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NeckStrain
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Cat Driver
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Re: How To Land A C172 - Thread Reference!
Great, happy to see you are improving and getting more confident.
Now I am going to make a suggestion that will make you an even more competent pilot.
Quick repetitive movements of the flight controls are counter productive as they set up a oscillation.
Do you keep your car in the driving lane by over correcting with the steering wheel?
Or do you only move the wheel just enough to keep it pointing where you want it to go?
Hopefully you will understand I am giving you this advice to improve your flying and not to criticize you.
I personally try and change or control attitude by using control pressures with as little movement of the controls as possible, makes for far more precise flying.
HOWEVER:::
If you need aggressive control movements to maintain the desired flight path or position in relation to the ground during landing by all means use what is necessary.
Now I am going to make a suggestion that will make you an even more competent pilot.
Smooth small movements of the flight controls should used to maintain or change an attitude.3) When doing any correction, quickly correcting the other way, kind of like FLUTTERING the elevator, pull, push, pull, pull, pull, push, pull, to maintain the proper attitude
Quick repetitive movements of the flight controls are counter productive as they set up a oscillation.
Do you keep your car in the driving lane by over correcting with the steering wheel?
Or do you only move the wheel just enough to keep it pointing where you want it to go?
Hopefully you will understand I am giving you this advice to improve your flying and not to criticize you.
I personally try and change or control attitude by using control pressures with as little movement of the controls as possible, makes for far more precise flying.
HOWEVER:::
If you need aggressive control movements to maintain the desired flight path or position in relation to the ground during landing by all means use what is necessary.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Re: How To Land A C172 - Thread Reference!
If that's knots, it's too fast, and will cause you to float forever. A 10kt headwind will tend to mask an airspeed that's too high.NeckStrain wrote: 2) Not touching the throttle on final , keeping airspeed between 70 - 80 (not dicking around with it as someone suggested)
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NeckStrain
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Re: How To Land A C172 - Thread Reference!
I take everything as constructive! Thank you for the tip! I get exactly what you mean, I think 70 - 80 was a bit fast, so I had to perform some down, up , down up corrections to avoid ballooning and being flat, I will be working on a speed closer to 1.3Vso going forward 
CpnCrunch: I agree - as I def experienced some ballooning when rounding out that I had to quickly take care of. I will be fine tuning the APPROACH portion of the landing now that I have developed a sense for the full picture of the round out phase! Of course I am looking forward to some different wind conditions and perfecting cross wind technique as well.Cat Driver wrote:Great, happy to see you are improving and getting more confident.
CpnCrunch wrote: If that's knots, it's too fast, and will cause you to float forever. A 10kt headwind will tend to mask an airspeed that's too high.
Re: How To Land A C172 - Thread Reference!
As Cat said, and:
When flying a tricycle aircraft, once you enter the flare power off, and begin your pull, there will be no "push". It will be a very fine "pull, pull, hold, pull, hold, hold, pull.... " and the satisfying peeping of mainwheels on the runway. After that peep of mainwheels, no relaxing, a measured and continued pull, (no rushing, or jerking the controls) until you have reached the up elevator stop. The object is to hold the nosewheel off as long as possible, though not so high that it drops as you slow. Then hold full up elevator input at least until you're clear of the runway, but in most cases, all the way until you're parked. A push ONLY ever when wheel landing a taidragger, and that's a whole different discussion.
Now, before the anguished shrieks of "but you need the nosewheel to steer!?!". Nuh Uh... If, in a Cessna, you have enough effectiveness of elevator to hold off the nosewheel, the rudder is also effective enough to steer the plane. While pondering what I have written, and bracing yourself for the possible shock which your instructor might express when you begin to handle the plane like a pro, consider the following: Single Cessnas have a rudder which is directly controlled by the pedals. However, the nosewheel is not directly controlled by the pedals, there are spirngs in the steering, and a centering cam, so the the nosewheel stays centered in flight despite rudder movement. So if you're rolling down the runway, controls full back, you apply some flawlessly timed rudder input, to perfectly maintain the runway centerline, the nosewheel might actually not steer at all, but scrub just a little, as the centering cam is holding it straight. That's perfectly okay. You wonder why I'm so sure that the nosewheel is not required to actually steer on the surface to control direction of the aircraft during landing rollout: I am confident because I have lots of time flying C-150, C-172 as taildraggers, and C-180 & C-185. Each of these aircraft can be easily handled, even in a hearty crosswind, during a wheel landing, when the tailwheel will be held off as long as possible. The rudder does the steering.
Cessna oleos are a little on the fussy side, and a lot on the expensive side. Allowing the nosewheel to flump down shortly after the mains make contact puts a lot of extra wear and tear on the nosewheel. It might even set up a shimmy, which will displease you. Best to defer that yo as late in the rollout as possible. The people who have to maintain the aircraft will be quietly very pleased when they witness your mechanical sympathy fr their aircraft.
One other tidbit, that the flight manual won't tell you: For a 150/152/172/182, your control over pitch attitude (for keeping the nose light) during movement on the ground with power will be a little more effective if you maintain 10-20 flap, rather than flaps up. The slightly extended flaps change the downwash over the tail, and make it a little more effective under power while taxiing or rolling out. So while you're caringly holding nose up, the nose will be lighter (less shock on the oleo), and higher (less prop damage). Though not critical for clean hard surfaced runways, It gets important on gravel or soft surfaces. The extra inch or two higher you can keep the prop will be that much less damage. All my taxiing is flaps 15 (C-150 normally), and, after my full flap landings, I'll retract to 15 flap when attention is available during rollout, and take the 15 to the parking spot, rather than flaps up. Yeah, I know that this is not in harmony with the flight manual and teaching, but there a few no extra risk tricks to make a 100 series Cessna just a little better than commonly known!
When flying a tricycle aircraft, once you enter the flare power off, and begin your pull, there will be no "push". It will be a very fine "pull, pull, hold, pull, hold, hold, pull.... " and the satisfying peeping of mainwheels on the runway. After that peep of mainwheels, no relaxing, a measured and continued pull, (no rushing, or jerking the controls) until you have reached the up elevator stop. The object is to hold the nosewheel off as long as possible, though not so high that it drops as you slow. Then hold full up elevator input at least until you're clear of the runway, but in most cases, all the way until you're parked. A push ONLY ever when wheel landing a taidragger, and that's a whole different discussion.
Now, before the anguished shrieks of "but you need the nosewheel to steer!?!". Nuh Uh... If, in a Cessna, you have enough effectiveness of elevator to hold off the nosewheel, the rudder is also effective enough to steer the plane. While pondering what I have written, and bracing yourself for the possible shock which your instructor might express when you begin to handle the plane like a pro, consider the following: Single Cessnas have a rudder which is directly controlled by the pedals. However, the nosewheel is not directly controlled by the pedals, there are spirngs in the steering, and a centering cam, so the the nosewheel stays centered in flight despite rudder movement. So if you're rolling down the runway, controls full back, you apply some flawlessly timed rudder input, to perfectly maintain the runway centerline, the nosewheel might actually not steer at all, but scrub just a little, as the centering cam is holding it straight. That's perfectly okay. You wonder why I'm so sure that the nosewheel is not required to actually steer on the surface to control direction of the aircraft during landing rollout: I am confident because I have lots of time flying C-150, C-172 as taildraggers, and C-180 & C-185. Each of these aircraft can be easily handled, even in a hearty crosswind, during a wheel landing, when the tailwheel will be held off as long as possible. The rudder does the steering.
Cessna oleos are a little on the fussy side, and a lot on the expensive side. Allowing the nosewheel to flump down shortly after the mains make contact puts a lot of extra wear and tear on the nosewheel. It might even set up a shimmy, which will displease you. Best to defer that yo as late in the rollout as possible. The people who have to maintain the aircraft will be quietly very pleased when they witness your mechanical sympathy fr their aircraft.
One other tidbit, that the flight manual won't tell you: For a 150/152/172/182, your control over pitch attitude (for keeping the nose light) during movement on the ground with power will be a little more effective if you maintain 10-20 flap, rather than flaps up. The slightly extended flaps change the downwash over the tail, and make it a little more effective under power while taxiing or rolling out. So while you're caringly holding nose up, the nose will be lighter (less shock on the oleo), and higher (less prop damage). Though not critical for clean hard surfaced runways, It gets important on gravel or soft surfaces. The extra inch or two higher you can keep the prop will be that much less damage. All my taxiing is flaps 15 (C-150 normally), and, after my full flap landings, I'll retract to 15 flap when attention is available during rollout, and take the 15 to the parking spot, rather than flaps up. Yeah, I know that this is not in harmony with the flight manual and teaching, but there a few no extra risk tricks to make a 100 series Cessna just a little better than commonly known!
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NeckStrain
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Re: How To Land A C172 - Thread Reference!
Well, here it is, one of my landings during my solo! Thank you to everyone's tips that helped me refine it. A bit left of the centre line mind you but a good start to build on!
See here >> https://streamable.com/q1214 - tips welcome
See here >> https://streamable.com/q1214 - tips welcome
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NeckStrain
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Re: How To Land A C172 - Thread Reference!
This is DEFINITELY, the BIGGEST thing I need to work on for my landings! Once the mains are down, I need to calm down, relax, and keep back pressure and let the nose gently lower down! I wince overtime it clunks down
PilotDAR wrote:
Cessna oleos are a little on the fussy side, and a lot on the expensive side. Allowing the nosewheel to flump down shortly after the mains make contact puts a lot of extra wear and tear on the nosewheel. It might even set up a shimmy, which will displease you. Best to defer that yo as late in the rollout as possible. !
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ryanisflyin83
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Re: How To Land A C172 - Thread Reference!
Neckstrain, Thank you for this thread and your enthusiasm! I am in the very similar situation as you, albeit a bit more reserved with my expression of excitement! 
This thread has given me some very good ideas. I especially appreciated all the tips from everyone, and Neckstrains summarization of steps he will be following. All of this is very good info I will be brining with me to my lesson tomorrow!
Also, I have a lot of visual reference problems that I think are due to improper seat adjustment. I also feel I lack a certain, "rudder authority" which I believe is due to seat position; the rudders always seem to be a bit too close but usually a bit too far to reach with my feet- and I usually have the seat locked in as far forward as I can get it. Ive seen some youtube videos on proper seat/eye level adjustment but they're all for airbus and Boeing planes. is there any simple tricks to knowing your seat it as the ideal position in a C172 or is it all trial and error? Im about 5' 9". My instructor in an inch or two shorter than me but has no problems with the seat height/adjustment though, which makes me wonder if I need a cushion or need to raise my seat, or if I just need to figure out how to adjust my seat properly?
This thread has given me some very good ideas. I especially appreciated all the tips from everyone, and Neckstrains summarization of steps he will be following. All of this is very good info I will be brining with me to my lesson tomorrow! Also, I have a lot of visual reference problems that I think are due to improper seat adjustment. I also feel I lack a certain, "rudder authority" which I believe is due to seat position; the rudders always seem to be a bit too close but usually a bit too far to reach with my feet- and I usually have the seat locked in as far forward as I can get it. Ive seen some youtube videos on proper seat/eye level adjustment but they're all for airbus and Boeing planes. is there any simple tricks to knowing your seat it as the ideal position in a C172 or is it all trial and error? Im about 5' 9". My instructor in an inch or two shorter than me but has no problems with the seat height/adjustment though, which makes me wonder if I need a cushion or need to raise my seat, or if I just need to figure out how to adjust my seat properly?
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Cat Driver
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Re: How To Land A C172 - Thread Reference!
Ryan , if you are training for a PPL your instructor should be answering all your questions.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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North Shore
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Re: How To Land A C172 - Thread Reference!
Ryan, I'm not sure if there's an ideal or mandated seat position for the 172; as Cat said, consult your instructor and the POH ( don't recall if it mentions seat positioning..)
The important points, though, are to make sure that it's comfortable, and that you can easily get full travel on all controls, and easy access to switches and the like.
The best advice anyone ever gave me about seat position is to make sure that it's in *exactly* the same position for every flight - if it's not, then your visual cues will be off, as will your flying..
The important points, though, are to make sure that it's comfortable, and that you can easily get full travel on all controls, and easy access to switches and the like.
The best advice anyone ever gave me about seat position is to make sure that it's in *exactly* the same position for every flight - if it's not, then your visual cues will be off, as will your flying..
Say, what's that mountain goat doing up here in the mist?
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
Re: How To Land A C172 - Thread Reference!
I got a great example of seat position last week while practicing Glassy Water Takeoffs and Landings with my instructor. I discovered that when I am flying I sit slightly forward in the seat compared to when the Instructor was demonstrating (due to avoiding interfering with the controls). This resulted in me holding a a slightly higher nose attitude than needed consistently. As soon as I realized that the rest of the landings improved greatly.
