Weird situation, looking for help....

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forafriend
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Weird situation, looking for help....

#1 Post by forafriend » Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:00 pm

Hey,

So I am asking this question for a friend....Yeah, yeah I know how it sounds.

Here is his situation.He was completing a full commercial licence back in 99-01....He completed training at two different schools out east. He flew all his x-country time, completed flight test (passed). Completed both Commercial exams (passed). He did his night rating but ended up not paying the bill for quite some time, (money got tight). Anyways, here is where is gets interesting.

He never logged any of his commercial time building, he never picked up a copy of his PTR from the flight school, which has since closed down. Also, his commercial licence was never signed off due to the fact he never paid for his night rating. (he has since paid for the night rating)

He contacted the Airline that owns the closed down flight school, they don't have any PTR's nor do they have any idea where they are.

Should his licence have been signed off?
Is there anyway he can get his time flown back into a logbook, and credit it towards his Commercial licence? He knows he will need to do some re training for the ride and a ground school.

What are this guys options?


Thanks!!
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lownslow
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Re: Weird situation, looking for help....

#2 Post by lownslow » Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:59 am

forafriend wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:00 pm
Should his licence have been signed off?
Yes. Yes it should have. But it wasn't.
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zealer
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Re: Weird situation, looking for help....

#3 Post by zealer » Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:50 am

Does he remember the registration of the aircraft he flew in? If so, try and contact the latest owner and have them check the journey logs for that period. Hopefully his name and the instructors will show up. Get copies.
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lownslow
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Re: Weird situation, looking for help....

#4 Post by lownslow » Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:00 am

zealer wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:50 am
Does he remember the registration of the aircraft he flew in? If so, try and contact the latest owner and have them check the journey logs for that period. Hopefully his name and the instructors will show up. Get copies.
It might be worth looking into but don't hold your breath. It's not uncommon for school planes to get a daily journey log entry with a note to 'see daily flight sheet.' Those daily flight sheets will be nearly 20 years old and likely thrown out a long time ago now.
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forafriend
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Re: Weird situation, looking for help....

#5 Post by forafriend » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:36 am

Hey,

One flight school has been closed for a 10 yrs and no sign of the DFL of all airplanes at the school.
He has it all recorded in his own logbook. Shouldn't he be able to get transport to do something here? He up and frigged off with training because well, it was 2001 and the industry was not looking so hot.
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lownslow
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Re: Weird situation, looking for help....

#6 Post by lownslow » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:57 am

forafriend wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:00 pm
He never logged any of his commercial time building,
forafriend wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:36 am
He has it all recorded in his own logbook.
So which is it, does he have the information from every flight logged somewhere or doesn't he? The answer will be the difference between difficult and nearly impossible.

If he has every flight logged in his personal logbook then I would start with a phone call to the nearest TC office to ask what will be required to validate a replacement PTR. Leave out the bit of not paying and having a sign-off withheld, what's important here is that a CPL was started but not finished. Let them know the PTR was left behind at the school which is now closed. Surely there is provision for replacing lost or destroyed PTRs.
forafriend wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:36 am
Shouldn't he be able to get transport to do something here?
Sounds harsh, but this isn't Transport Canada's problem.
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Sasquash
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Re: Weird situation, looking for help....

#7 Post by Sasquash » Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:31 am

It may by TC's problem in that they are responsible for the proper issuance of a licence based on the reported hours the applicant reports. Certainly it is going through the extra works to validate the hours, but there are still some ways to try and figure this one out.

First off the Daily flight sheet is likely NOT an option as the CARs only requires this record to be kept for two years.

(Daily Flight Record
406.56 A flight training unit that operates an aeroplane, a helicopter or a glider shall, for the purpose of maintaining operational control, establish, maintain and retain for at least two years after an entry is made a daily flight record that meets the personnel licensing standards )

Your friend also contacted the flight school and was basically brushed off. I wonder if your friend just talked to the call taker or if there was some more inquires done within the company. From what I read the defunct flight training school was part of an airline operation. So the airline is still up and working but not the flight school? There might be some record still existing as sometime they may not be destroyed right at the 2 year mark.

In any event, there might be light at the end of the tunnel as it sounds as his or her training was completed and not signed off due to financial (and civil liability) matters.

In the end the flight school is still required to forward the PTR to TC when the training is completed as required by:

• 405.33 (1) A person who conducts flight training for the issuance of a private pilot licence, a commercial pilot licence or a flight instructor rating — aeroplane or helicopter shall, for each trainee, maintain a pilot training record that meets the personnel licensing standards.
• (2) On request from a trainee receiving training for the purposes referred to in subsection (1), the person responsible for maintaining the trainee’s pilot training record shall
o (a) certify the accuracy of the entries; and
o (b) provide the trainee with the record.
• (3) When a trainee has completed flight training, including all of the tests and written examinations required pursuant to Subpart 1, the person who conducted the flight training shall forward the trainee’s pilot training record to the Minister.

I would go ahead an apply for the licence he or she requires explaining the circumstances as stated at the beginning of this thread. I might further suggest your friend apply by himself or herself and she may have to sign specific affidavit pertaining to the loss or lack of documents.

I hope this helps!
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praveen4143
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Re: Weird situation, looking for help....

#8 Post by praveen4143 » Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:10 am

I have had a student with a similar situation once. Transport asked him to make a new PTR and enter times flown from the previous school and sign just the student portion of the page sign offs and he was able to make use of the hours from the training at the defunct school. This was for a PPL and I am unsure if it would work for a CPL, but wouldn't hurt to try. I would start at your nearest TC office.
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