Hours towards CPL (what counts?)

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Spinwmts
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Hours towards CPL (what counts?)

Post by Spinwmts »

Confused :roll: I earned my FAA PPL sometime ago then moved to Canada and transferred my license over. Between the time of getting my FAA PPL and transferring it over to TC I flew quite a bit (including XC night, some inst, and a decent amount of PIC time). Now after talking to some people it seems that there is uncertainty as to if those hours can count toward my CPL with the exception of TT. For example: Right after I received my FAA PPL, I took a night xc flight from JYO to MYR (3 hours, 330 NM x2 other half was by day though). I didn't stop 3 times, but still that single flight there and back would knock out two requirements (total XC and my 2 hours of Solo Night XC)


Has anyone had any experience with this when getting hours checked out for a CPL? Thanks!
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digits_
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Re: Hours towards CPL (what counts?)

Post by digits_ »

You have to make sure you can prove all the requirements. Solo hours are usually easy to prove, as they are in your logbook and you were PIC so you can "certify" that you flew them. Dual hours can be a bit trickier, as you have to prove that every requirement is met. Not every country logs the exercises (stall, spin, x country, etc) in the same way.

A few years ago all my foreign hours were accepted. There was some discussion about some instrument time requirements that weren't logged properly, but my old european flight school wrote a letter to confirm I flew X amount of hours, and that was accepted.
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Spinwmts
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Re: Hours towards CPL (what counts?)

Post by Spinwmts »

digits_ wrote: Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:26 am A few years ago all my foreign hours were accepted. There was some discussion about some instrument time requirements that weren't logged properly, but my old european flight school wrote a letter to confirm I flew X amount of hours, and that was accepted.
Thanks, maybe when its closer to check ride time I'll get a letter from my states side school for any requirement that i didn't already re-meet after get my TS PPL.
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digits_
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Re: Hours towards CPL (what counts?)

Post by digits_ »

Spinwmts wrote: Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:00 am
digits_ wrote: Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:26 am A few years ago all my foreign hours were accepted. There was some discussion about some instrument time requirements that weren't logged properly, but my old european flight school wrote a letter to confirm I flew X amount of hours, and that was accepted.
Thanks, maybe when its closer to check ride time I'll get a letter from my states side school for any requirement that i didn't already re-meet after get my TS PPL.
Make it a habit of writing in your logbook which exercises you did every lesson. Maybe have your instructor sign it. I won't hurt, and it gives you an extra reference when you apply.
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As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
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-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
Spinwmts
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Re: Hours towards CPL (what counts?)

Post by Spinwmts »

Yep, since I started training in Canada we always right down the ex. # in the remarks. I find it interesting that here the instructors don't sign and record their Lic# in my personal log book, but as I understand it keep a student log book at the club. Was that your exp as well?
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Re: Hours towards CPL (what counts?)

Post by jg24 »

Spinwmts wrote: Fri Mar 16, 2018 3:15 pm Yep, since I started training in Canada we always right down the ex. # in the remarks. I find it interesting that here the instructors don't sign and record their Lic# in my personal log book, but as I understand it keep a student log book at the club. Was that your exp as well?
All flight schools keep track of your training for PPL and CPL in a Pilot Training Record. Your logbook is your responsibility. Most instructors do a good job of keeping your PTR in check, but it is highly suggested to ensure that YOU also make sure that flights are tracked in your PTR. I've seen examples where instructors forget or get overwhelmed/sloppy and miss a flight or more in students' PTRs. When you go up for a solo training flight, don't forget to log that in your PTR as well. That PTR is used to submit your request for a license once your training is complete. It is kept in your file at TC.

The other use is internally within the school. If your primary instructor is sick or unavailable, your secondary or another instructor should be able to pick up your PTR, read the notes left from your last lesson and figure out what the next lesson should be, that along with the FTU's SOPs and training syllabus should in theory keep your training smooth between various instructors.... in theory
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Spinwmts
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Re: Hours towards CPL (what counts?)

Post by Spinwmts »

hi, I believe the below definitively answers my original question of hours required towards a CPL after earning your PPL:

(ii) following the issuance of a private pilot licence — aeroplane by Canada or another contracting state, have completed 65 hours of commercial pilot flight training in aeroplanes consisting of a minimum of:...

So if my school says "wait a minute, you have to complete 65 hours of pilot training with us" that would be incorrect so long as the U.S. is considered a contracting state? This would make a big difference for me because I started working toward my instrument in the state before moving up to Canada.

(III) 20 hours of instrument flight time in addition to the experience stated in subclauses (I) and (II). A maximum 10 hours of the 20 hours may be conducted on an approved aeroplane simulator or synthetic flight training device.
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Spokes
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Re: Hours towards CPL (what counts?)

Post by Spokes »

I believe that the instrument training has to come from a flight instructor to be counted towards cpl time.
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Spinwmts
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Re: Hours towards CPL (what counts?)

Post by Spinwmts »

Spokes wrote: Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:28 am I believe that the instrument training has to come from a flight instructor to be counted towards cpl time.
Hi Spokes, Thanks- It was completed with my instructor in the U.S.
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photofly
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Re: Hours towards CPL (what counts?)

Post by photofly »

Contracting refers to ICAO membership (more or less) so the US is definitely a contracting state. But the clause you quote refers to the state that issued your PPL, not the training after the issuance of that PPL.

The good news is that TC’s policy is to accept all US training, as long as you can document what the training was for at the time. They will accept your instrument hours with a US CFI.
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Spinwmts
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Re: Hours towards CPL (what counts?)

Post by Spinwmts »

photofly wrote: Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:30 pm The good news is that TC’s policy is to accept all US training, as long as you can document what the training was for at the time. They will accept your instrument hours with a US CFI.
Thanks for the info; That is interesting because I was told that the night hours that I acquired in the states could NOT be used for a night rating in Canada. I wonder if I should challenge this with my school? I decided to skip the night rating and just go straight for my CPL, but I'm currently sitting on 12 hours of night so I'm more than half way there.
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Spinwmts
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Re: Hours towards CPL (what counts?)

Post by Spinwmts »

photofly wrote: Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:30 pm The good news is that TC’s policy is to accept all US training, as long as you can document what the training was for at the time. They will accept your instrument hours with a US CFI.
Broached the subject with my school yesterday and the CFI is adamant that the 65 hours of commercial pilot training has to be in a "Canadian Registered Aircraft". I'm not seeing anything that specifies this in the CARS. I would hate to leave hours on the table so if anyone can confirm this statement I would be love to hear your take on it.
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Re: Hours towards CPL (what counts?)

Post by digits_ »

Spinwmts wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:51 am Broached the subject with my school yesterday and the CFI is adamant that the 65 hours of commercial pilot training has to be in a "Canadian Registered Aircraft". I'm not seeing anything that specifies this in the CARS. I would hate to leave hours on the table so if anyone can confirm this statement I would be love to hear your take on it.
Not correct.

Source: they issued me one
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Re: Hours towards CPL (what counts?)

Post by CpnCrunch »

Spinwmts wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:51 am Broached the subject with my school yesterday and the CFI is adamant that the 65 hours of commercial pilot training has to be in a "Canadian Registered Aircraft". I'm not seeing anything that specifies this in the CARS. I would hate to leave hours on the table so if anyone can confirm this statement I would be love to hear your take on it.
CFIs don't always have the correct answers. It's TC's opinion on the matter that counts. If your AP refuses to sign off your application, just send it to TC without an AP signoff (it's optional). That's what I did when the CFI/AP refused to sign off my application because my 300nm X/C didn't conform to how the school usually does them (even though I followed the CARs). I just sent it to TC and they happily issued my CPL.
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Re: Hours towards CPL (what counts?)

Post by ahramin »

What was different about your 300nm CpnCrunch? Mine was done on 2 different aircraft and the Victoria Flying Club AP was reluctant to sign :).
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Re: Hours towards CPL (what counts?)

Post by CpnCrunch »

ahramin wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:12 pm What was different about your 300nm CpnCrunch? Mine was done on 2 different aircraft and the Victoria Flying Club AP was reluctant to sign :).
One of my landings was a touch+go. AP phoned TC and they were non-committal, but the CARs seemed pretty clear on it so I took my chances. (Probably if I'd emailed TC they would have confirmed that a T+G constitutes a landing, but it seemed so obvious from reading the CARs that I didn't bother). The reason for this rule at the club was because FSSs don't record T+Gs in their logs, so it makes it easier for the AP to verify if there's a full stop landing.
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Re: Hours towards CPL (what counts?)

Post by Spokes »

I don’t think you even need the t&g at the end of your 300 for it to count. Just have to cover the distance I though.
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Re: Hours towards CPL (what counts?)

Post by CpnCrunch »

Spokes wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:17 pm I don’t think you even need the t&g at the end of your 300 for it to count. Just have to cover the distance I though.
You have to have 3 landings somewhere on the route.
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Re: Hours towards CPL (what counts?)

Post by C-GGGQ »

Yeah at bigger schools you hear all the time about requiring full stops so you can go in and get your logbook stamped at the fss. Certainly not required as CpnCrunch proved. I just told my cfi/ instructor my route, filed a plan, did two t&g along the way. Stopped for fuel and food at my destination, and came back no stops.
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Re: Hours towards CPL (what counts?)

Post by Pratt X 3 »

DIVISION VII - COMMERCIAL PILOT LICENCE
421.30 Aeroplanes - Requirements
The requirements in respect of an application for a Commercial Pilot Licence — Aeroplane are the following:
(4) Experience
(a) An applicant for a commercial pilot licence — aeroplane shall
(B) 30 hours solo flight time including:
(I) 25 hours solo flight time emphasizing the improvement of general flying skills of the applicant which shall include a cross-country flight to a point of a minimum of 300 nautical mile radius from the point of departure and shall include a minimum of 3 landings at points other than that of departure;
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/r ... htm#421_30
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