Logging Night Cross Country PIC

[TopGun1234]

I think I may have been logging night pic XC incorrectly.

So in the log book you have a Cross Country column under which you have 3 categories (Dual, P.I.C. and NIGHT).

If you're flying PIC at night, do you write-in the time in both the night and pic categories of the cross country column?

When I've been flying XC at night, I've just been writing in the night only column.

Thanks,

[FL007]

Sounds like your logbook is the problem, usually you have a day/night column, then pic/dual/fo underneath each.

I would log pic then night separately in yours and then get another logbook that allows you to differentiate the two so it won't be a mess further in your career.

[Outlaw58]

As long as it is logged in a way you can demonstrate you acquired the experience, TC should not give you a hard time with it. It helps to put details in the remark line such as airports of origin and destination that would demonstrate that the flight was in fact cross-country. Those extra columns are really just for you to help with the calculating of the time.

58

[Outlaw58]

Sounds like your logbook is the problem, usually you have a day/night column, then pic/dual/fo underneath each.

I would log pic then night separately in yours and then get another logbook that allows you to differentiate the two so it won't be a mess further in your career.

If I may suggest so, don't get too caught up with the log books... After you acquire your ATPL, there is no longer a need to track those hours.

58

[TopGun1234]

Ok. But just to be clear, does Transport Canada require you to distinguish between cross country flights that are night dual and night pic?

[FL007]

Ok. But just to be clear, does Transport Canada require you to distinguish between cross country flights that are night dual and night pic?

Not as long as you can prove you have night pic enough to acquire the atpl. Dual and FO is not the same, either, so that needs to be differentiated as well if you don't have the pic time for night.

Also I think what outlaw meant is as far as true night pic/fo/xcountry is concerned it won't matter as much if you have your atpl signed off, however I have my atpl and still have to update my logbook as new employers will ask for an updated logbooks, they won't accept the last 3 pages of your logbook from 1995. I'm a little OCD about keeping my logbook accurate, and a good logbook with many different categories won't hurt.

[Outlaw58]

Also I think what outlaw meant is as far as true night pic/fo/xcountry is concerned it won't matter as much if you have your atpl signed off, however I have my atpl and still have to update my logbook as new employers will ask for an updated logbooks, they won't accept the last 3 pages of your logbook from 1995. I'm a little OCD about keeping my logbook accurate, and a good logbook with many different categories won't hurt.

I was referring to the x-country time columns in the log book. Those hours mean nothing after the ATPL. YOU DO have to continue to log your flying time (Day/night/PIC/FO...etc...) but the extra columns that don't count toward your TT (instrument, instruction, x-cntry, NVG, etc...) are just for your own personal preference and don't really mean much once you have attained the licenses/rating these hours count towards.

And along the line of what FL007 does, I maintain my own excel spreadsheet that tabulates all kinds of totals

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[455tt]

Just curious TopGun1234 - who is the manufacturer of your logbook?

[TopGun1234]

"Published and distributed by: Hammond Aviation LTD"

An old version of this: https://hammondaviation.com/en-ca/produ ... mall-black

But instead of the day & night separation under the cross country header, its just Dual,PIC and Night under cross country.

[FL007]

Also I think what outlaw meant is as far as true night pic/fo/xcountry is concerned it won't matter as much if you have your atpl signed off, however I have my atpl and still have to update my logbook as new employers will ask for an updated logbooks, they won't accept the last 3 pages of your logbook from 1995. I'm a little OCD about keeping my logbook accurate, and a good logbook with many different categories won't hurt.

I was referring to the x-country time columns in the log book. Those hours mean nothing after the ATPL. YOU DO have to continue to log your flying time (Day/night/PIC/FO...etc...) but the extra columns that don't count toward your TT (instrument, instruction, x-cntry, NVG, etc...) are just for your own personal preference and don't really mean much once you have attained the licenses/rating these hours count towards.

And along the line of what FL007 does, I maintain my own excel spreadsheet that tabulates all kinds of totals

58

Yes exactly what I thought you meant. You're right!

Excel is good for that. even hand writing a page in my logbook is tiring now.

[455tt]

TopGun1234

Thanks for explaining.

OK so you have an old version of Hammond's Pilot Logbook. Their current format is more or less OK but could be better. The old format you describe is not useful. You would like to have dedicated columns under cross country for Day and Night, with each the Day and Night XC then sub-divided into Dual, PIC and CoPilot. That would be the ideal.

When you log cross country, you are making multiple entries. First you enter under "Single Engine/Multi Engine" the time (dual, PIC, co-pilot), and these columns are typically given a number. Then you later add all of these for your grand total. But then on the right hand side of the log book you will be logging more details for the flights such as instrument time, cross country, instructor etc. which you would not add up for your grand total. So for example, a 1.0 SE PIC flight at night that was cross country, you would enter 1.0 under Single Engine - Night - PIC (column no. 4 would be typical) and then later on over on the right side, you would enter 1.0 again under the column "Cross Country - Night - PIC". If the flight were also under IFR for 0.5, and lets say you completed an IFR approach to landing in IMC, you would also include "0.5" under "Instrument - Actual" and include the type of approach as well. But as stated, the XC and IFR times are not added up towards your grand total but are still important since they are still logged and added up so you can say your total IFR time, XC time, instructor, floats, taildragger etc.. Hope this makes sense? Keep a neat, detailed and current pilot logbook and somebody one day who is important will notice - such as a chief pilot interviewing you!

Under CARS 401.08, you MUST keep an accurate and current pilot logbook and you must also keep this up to date. This is not just for purposes of applying for a licence but also for purposes of proving CURRENCY. Say for example, you have done 5 take-offs by night and 5 separate and distinct landings by night in the last 6 months and this is what is needed to be current to carry a passenger at night but you must be able to PROVE this and this why you need a current logbook. Same thing for keeping current with the IFR currency requirements. A good logbook will have plenty of columns for all of these kinds of entries. Also look for a "point of departure" column and "destination" column and even "intermediate aerodrome" locations for a flight.

So I would highly recommend getting a more current and accurate format logbook - there are many out there and you can even go with an electronic format if you wish. If you like the electronic format fine but I would encourage you to keep a paper format logbook as well. You should also periodically have the entries certified correct by the flying school or aircraft owner. And keep it in a safe place - not left in an unattended car for example where I have known a pilot or two to have had their car and/or flight case stolen with their logbook inside!

Kind regards,

TT

[FishermanIvan]

Get a digital logbook, and it will enter this all for you properly. The sooner you do it,the better, since you probably have a low amount of hours now, and it'll be a pain in the ass the longer you wait.

[TopGun1234]

Ok. Thanks for the explanation TT and/et al. Do you have recommendation for a good digital log book? Is that something you buy or are there excel templates you can link to?

Thx,

[455tt]

I personally hate the digital format - you still have to convert and print everything to paper format (for job interviews, licence applications etc.) and then you have to find an organized and neat way to professionally bind everything together and get certifications made onto pages. So I am a fan of the old style, bound paper format logbook. But there are many here who prefer digital who I am sure will have great feedback on a good digital logbook.

[Outlaw58]

I personally hate the digital format - you still have to convert and print everything to paper format (for job interviews, licence applications etc.) and then you have to find an organized and neat way to professionally bind everything together and get certifications made onto pages. So I am a fan of the old style, bound paper format logbook. But there are many here who prefer digital who I am sure will have great feedback on a good digital logbook.

I still carry an old fashion log book, but I use the spreadsheet to calculate totals for me and transcribe them over.

My spreadsheet (made it myself, not that hard) does a a summary of all my times that I like to attach to the logbook for rating/license/interview

Worked for me so far.

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[Cessna 180]

I use Safelog exclusively. Not sure if it's helped with any jobs I've got, but every interview I've had they've made a positive comment on my logbook. It's easy to print (i use a title page I made myself in illustrator) and then I get it spiral bound for $3 at staples. You can even print it on ledger green if you'd like, but I used cotton resume paper for my last (airline) interview. Makes it super easy to calculate individual aircraft type/category times for jobs, insurance, etc.