No notams doesn't mean no problems

[pelmet]

Took a nice G1000 equipped C172 up for a small cross country the other day to a 5000 foot long paved strip at a 'Registered aerodrome'. But not before calling the FIC and getting the notams just like I am supposed to. The specialist mentioned an unlit tower quite far away and I was on my way.


What ended up happening is something that I have seen before. The runway was 100% snow covered. Someone else landed prior to me and gave me a pirep of a very slippery runway. If the temp had not been above freezing, I might have diverted but at 2 or 3 degrees above freezing, I figured that I didn't have to worry about my brakes freezing somewhere along the way.

So I did a low and over and noticed that quite a few aircraft tracks were in the snow and it looked to be not so deep(perhaps 4-5 cm). So I landed, using a soft field technique and that was that. But the snow could have been deeper and one could have been landing at night where you might get a bit more of a surprise.

There seem to be a lot of notams out in the winter stating runway conditions at various small airports but don't count on no notams meaning no problems. I have seen this before and I have seen other airports with very high snowbanks close in to the runway that could catch a light twin's wing. of course, a phone call could get the information one needs but I didn't see anyone hanging around this airport.

I called the FIC and gave them a pirep so that they could create a notam. I guess none of the others that had left tracks in the snow had time to do that.

Bottom line...…..

In the end, as PIC, you are on your own and don't let your guard down.

[youhavecontrol]

Sound advice. My general rule is to assume the runway is snow-covered unless reported otherwise. I always call before flying if I don't see a runway condition report in the winter or at least have a plan 'B' if the surface is crap.

[goingnowherefast]

Once a year, there's always a situation where the NOTAM says runway is good, but dated yesterday afternoon. 6" of snow falls overnight, plane departs, lands in snow and breaks something. The first NOTAM that morning is runway closed due disabled aircraft.

My point being pay attention to the time the runway condition NOTAM was issued, could be several days over a weekend. Has it snowed recently? I bet that NOTAM issued 2 days ago doesn't reflect the current conditions, especially if the meteorological conditions have changed.

[pelmet]

Thanks for the replies. All good points.

Even a notam issued an hour ago is not necessarily valid if weather conditions are changing things. More snow could have fallen, dry snow could be slushy, etc. Depending on the circumstances of your operation, this could be critical or it may not have any adverse effect.

[TurkeyFarmYQX]

Reminds me of poor QRA.

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=206811

[rookiepilot]

1) Call the airport and get a report on the runway condition.

2) if no one answers / you fly there anyway, and can't get a report from another plane who has landed there, / or can't tell from a low level runway inspection , Don't land!

Not complicated.

Plan your flight. Stick to a well thought out plan.

If it's snowing that heavy, like wet snow, where conditions would change that fast during the flight -- I question being up there in a light aircraft.

For a smaller airport I wouldn't ever trust a Notam for a RSC. Use the CFS, call someone on the field, like the fuelling service, -- I've done this many times -- if there isn't anyone else at the location monitoring/ answering, which isn't that uncommon.

Even if you don't want fuel, cause of the call out charge or whatever, the fueler might be at or near the field, ask nice and they will give you a good report, if other planes have been in and out, ect......

[A346Dude]

I don't think the FIC can create a NOTAM for a runway condition report based on a PIREP. It would be distributed as a PIREP, with the normal expiration period that entails. Only the airport operator can issue a runway condition report NOTAM.

It's not uncommon that the conditions are so bad the maintenance crew stops going out to plow or inspect a runway, but the old NOTAM showing a usable runway never gets replaced or cancelled. A runway condition report should be considered valid only at the time it is issued. Any changes after that, all you can do is make an educated guess, or request a new report from the airport operator.

[goingnowherefast]

If it's snowing that heavy, like wet snow, where conditions would change that fast during the flight -- I question being up there in a light aircraft.

Goes for any plane. Need good de/anti-icing facilities to deal with that. At least if you intend to take-off again.

[rookiepilot]

I don't think the FIC can create a NOTAM for a runway condition report based on a PIREP. It would be distributed as a PIREP, with the normal expiration period that entails. Only the airport operator can issue a runway condition report NOTAM.

Exactly....

Imagine how bad the Notam system would get (its already so cluttered) -- if every random pilot that went though a snow patch on a taxiway or whatever called in a pirep that created a Notam....

It's common sense. (Especially) If the Notam RSC is at all ancient...call the field.

[iflyforpie]

Our company policy is a current RSC at “limited winter maintenance” aerodromes.

It was end of the day, needed to pick up a kid out of Tumbler Ridge. No NOTAM for RSC, no way I was going to get somebody out there in time for a current RSC. I said I’d fly over to see if it was bare. It wasn’t. Didn’t think twice... pulled up and continued on.

[pelmet]

I don't think the FIC can create a NOTAM for a runway condition report based on a PIREP. It would be distributed as a PIREP, with the normal expiration period that entails. Only the airport operator can issue a runway condition report NOTAM.

I asked that question to the lady at the FIC and she said that they can create a notam with mention of it being a pirep.

[rookiepilot]

I don't think the FIC can create a NOTAM for a runway condition report based on a PIREP. It would be distributed as a PIREP, with the normal expiration period that entails. Only the airport operator can issue a runway condition report NOTAM.

I asked that question to the lady at the FIC and she said that they can create a notam with mention of it being a pirep.

It's a Pirep then.

I'd like to see an actual Notam in the Notam file labled this way....

[pelmet]

And now look at this...at a towered airport although it was around midnight.

"C-GZNS, a Mitsubishi MU-2B-60 aircraft operated by Thunder Airlines, was conducting flight
THU860 from Kenora (CYQK), ON to Thunder Bay (CYQT), ON with 2 crew members and 2
passengers on board. During the landing roll on Runway 07 at CYQT, the aircraft collided with a
snow drift, and directional control of the aircraft was lost. The aircraft veered to the right, then to
the left, however remained on the runway. There were no injuries, and the aircraft sustained minor
damage to the landing gear fairings and doors."


I guess if there is drifting snow, one might ask for a runway check or when the last plowing was done. Don't let your guard down.

[rookiepilot]

And now look at this...at a towered airport although it was around midnight.

I guess if there is drifting snow, one might ask for a runway check or when the last plowing was done. Don't let your guard down.

Many control towers close by midnight, or even earlier, including Thunder Bay.

https://acukwik.com/Airport-Info/CYQT

[pelmet]

Exactly why I mentioned it was midnight. Perhaps an FSS remote operation, I'm not really sure. Mind you, snowplowing operational capability may remain the same regardless of time...or maybe not. Either way, just shows what can happen at a fairly large facility.