C150 spin versus C152

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pelmet
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C150 spin versus C152

Post by pelmet » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:39 pm

This was a post on another forum. Is there any validity to what this guy is saying based on your experience?

"XXXXXXX died when they intentionally spun our Cessna 150 from 4,000 ft agl and then failed to recover. Now shouldn’t a type-certified aircraft have flight characteristics that are proven and predictable? I have given over 4,000 hours of flight instruction and I can tell you that whilst a C152 will spin the same every time, a C150 is a clown."
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lownslow
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Re: C150 spin versus C152

Post by lownslow » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:41 pm

The 152 has a bigger vertical tail, so there ought to be at least a little difference between how they spin. I don’t know enough about them to know about differences (if any) in airfoil, washout, control throws, CG, or whatever.
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photofly
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Re: C150 spin versus C152

Post by photofly » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:06 am

This is the official document from Cessna. It doesn't detail any significant differences in spin recovery characteristics between the two models.
Spin Characteristics of Cessnas.pdf
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PilotDAR
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Re: C150 spin versus C152

Post by PilotDAR » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:27 am

The vertical tail of the 152 is the same size as the 150M. Indeed, firewall aft, there are only two aerodynamic differences between the 150M and the 152: 40 flaps vs 30 (which does not affect spinning), and the 152 elevator has 3 degrees more down travel. The extra 3 degrees of down elevator available would very certainly improve spin recovery. I have no recollection of actually getting the elevator of a 150/152 to the full down stop during a spin recovery, but it's there if you need it. I can say that in other larger Cessnas which are not spin approved, full down elevator will be needed to be held in to recover aft C of G spins.

To answer the original questions, yes, for certification, all single engine planes are required to be recoverable from a spin. For spin approved, "utility category" airplanes, the spin recovery must be possible after six turns, and must not require unusual pilot skill and attention. All others are after one turn, and it must be possible, not necessarily easy. A few times, I've had a 150 tighten a little in a spin, but I have never had a 150/152 which demonstrated the least resistance to recovering when anything like a recovery was initiated. In some cases, letting go was enough, but that's poor discipline. If you think you've entered a spin, initiate the spin recovery properly.

For the accidents I've read about which seemed to involve a spin approved plane failing to recover from a spin, my mind does not leap to a deficiency with the plane.
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fish4life
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Re: C150 spin versus C152

Post by fish4life » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:36 pm

PilotDAR wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:27 am
The vertical tail of the 152 is the same size as the 150M. Indeed, firewall aft, there are only two aerodynamic differences between the 150M and the 152: 40 flaps vs 30 (which does not affect spinning), and the 152 elevator has 3 degrees more down travel. The extra 3 degrees of down elevator available would very certainly improve spin recovery. I have no recollection of actually getting the elevator of a 150/152 to the full down stop during a spin recovery, but it's there if you need it. I can say that in other larger Cessnas which are not spin approved, full down elevator will be needed to be held in to recover aft C of G spins.

To answer the original questions, yes, for certification, all single engine planes are required to be recoverable from a spin. For spin approved, "utility category" airplanes, the spin recovery must be possible after six turns, and must not require unusual pilot skill and attention. All others are after one turn, and it must be possible, not necessarily easy. A few times, I've had a 150 tighten a little in a spin, but I have never had a 150/152 which demonstrated the least resistance to recovering when anything like a recovery was initiated. In some cases, letting go was enough, but that's poor discipline. If you think you've entered a spin, initiate the spin recovery properly.

For the accidents I've read about which seemed to involve a spin approved plane failing to recover from a spin, my mind does not leap to a deficiency with the plane.
What about the fast back (no rear window) early models of the 150’s?
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fleetcanuck
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Re: C150 spin versus C152

Post by fleetcanuck » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:52 pm

I used to spin those regularly when I was doing my private and never had any issues. I do remember hearing a bit of creaking in the top of the cabin sometimes during the recovery.
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Re: C150 spin versus C152

Post by PilotDAR » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:29 pm

What about the fast back (no rear window) early models of the 150’s?
My experience in straight tail Cessnas (150, 172, 180, and 185), is that they all spin and recover just fine.
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C.W.E.
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Re: C150 spin versus C152

Post by C.W.E. » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:05 pm

My experience in straight tail Cessnas (150, 172, 180, and 185), is that they all spin and recover just fine.
I'll second that statement......

....with the additional comment that it works just fine for those who are capable of flying them properly.
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praveen4143
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Re: C150 spin versus C152

Post by praveen4143 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:54 pm

I've done a fair number of spins in both models and I can say with a fair bit of certainty that it's almost impossible to feel any major difference between the spin characteristics of either aircraft. Minor differences most definitely possible. Heck I've noticed minor differences between aircraft of the same model and year of manufacture because of different factors.

TL;DR nothing of note in spin characteristics to tell the difference between the two types.
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