fifty reasons to find a new instructor

This forum has been developed to discuss flight instruction/University and College programs.

Moderators: lilfssister, North Shore, ahramin, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, Right Seat Captain

trey kule
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4588
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:09 pm

Re: fifty reasons to find a new instructor

Post by trey kule »

This is a topic emergency
If you Hijack photos tread, we will never forgive you.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Everyone is a genius in hindsight

Oldguystrtn2fly
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 100
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:30 am

Re: fifty reasons to find a new instructor

Post by Oldguystrtn2fly »

FreelanceInstructor wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:07 am
Oldguystrtn2fly wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:59 am
My instructor told me after three or four lessons to put away the checklist so i could learn to do it from memory......
I do actually agree with this approach....some what. I am a huge advocate for flow checks, coupled with using the checklist as a true check list. When you go to the grocery store, you pick out the crap you need, then go through the list to make sure everything was in the cart. Using this approach, there is an added level of safety that really only takes a few extra moments. However, until you fully understand why you are doing the items on the checklist while completing a flow check, you can't just put away the checklist and learn it from memory. Moral of the story, however you decide to do the required tasks, always always always follow it up with the checklist. If not, you'll end up a statistic at some point.
So for a student pilot, yes or no to the checklist....you must also be a part time politician...yes dont use it, sort of use it and then always use it to check yourself after not using it....sometimes
---------- ADS -----------
  

Aviatard
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 432
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:45 am
Location: In a box behind Walmart

Re: fifty reasons to find a new instructor

Post by Aviatard »

My last instructor told me I can’t use two hands on the yoke for steep turns.
---------- ADS -----------
  

C.W.E.
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1262
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:22 pm

Re: fifty reasons to find a new instructor

Post by C.W.E. »

My last instructor told me I can’t use two hands on the yoke for steep turns.
Why not?
---------- ADS -----------
  

FreelanceInstructor
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:15 pm

Re: fifty reasons to find a new instructor

Post by FreelanceInstructor »

Oldguystrtn2fly wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:11 am
FreelanceInstructor wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:07 am
Oldguystrtn2fly wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:59 am
My instructor told me after three or four lessons to put away the checklist so i could learn to do it from memory......
I do actually agree with this approach....some what. I am a huge advocate for flow checks, coupled with using the checklist as a true check list. When you go to the grocery store, you pick out the crap you need, then go through the list to make sure everything was in the cart. Using this approach, there is an added level of safety that really only takes a few extra moments. However, until you fully understand why you are doing the items on the checklist while completing a flow check, you can't just put away the checklist and learn it from memory. Moral of the story, however you decide to do the required tasks, always always always follow it up with the checklist. If not, you'll end up a statistic at some point.
So for a student pilot, yes or no to the checklist....you must also be a part time politician...yes dont use it, sort of use it and then always use it to check yourself after not using it....sometimes
The answer is pretty simple actually, it’s a bit of both if you actually spent a little time reading through my post. To start, yes. The use of the checklist is important. However, once the student is familiar with the checklist and why they are doing what they are doing, then a flow check followed up with the checklist as an added safety margin is really, in my opinion, the safest way of doing things. Don’t overthink things too much. I’ve had a lot of success with teaching my students. If it works, it works. However it’s taught, as long as it works, there’s really no problem. And no, I’m not a politician. Just a dude who’s sick and tired of FTUisms who’s looking out for the best interest of my students. Have fun over analyzing my reply to your bullshit response. Just because I don’t agree with the way you think of things, doesn’t make my opinion of things incorrect.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Aviatard
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 432
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:45 am
Location: In a box behind Walmart

Re: fifty reasons to find a new instructor

Post by Aviatard »

C.W.E. wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:00 am
My last instructor told me I can’t use two hands on the yoke for steep turns.
Why not?
No real reason given, just "it's not allowed."
---------- ADS -----------
  

hank998899
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 12:50 pm

Re: fifty reasons to find a new instructor

Post by hank998899 »

When your instructor doesn't know what flight following is (I heard that from a friend)
---------- ADS -----------
  

Schooner69A
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 541
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:17 pm
Location: The Okanagan

Re: fifty reasons to find a new instructor

Post by Schooner69A »

FWIW:

25 years military on pistons, jets, helicopters: all memory
15 years corporate: pre-flight, pre-start, start/post start checks all memory. Everything else checklist; taxi, take-off, etc.
6 years TC: checklist.
---------- ADS -----------
  

CanadianBird
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:08 am

Re: fifty reasons to find a new instructor

Post by CanadianBird »

digits_ wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:57 pm
CanadianBird wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:35 pm
digits_ wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:00 pm
What's wrong with the first one? Targetting a specified speed shows that you can control the airplane in slow flight, no?
He said "target a specific power setting and speed". Both will differ with wind conditions, altitude, direction of wind. You can't just "Pull it back to 1800 rpm and slow up". Plus, that's not what the reasoning is for slow flight. It's to understand what it feels like just before a stall. If you are looking at only airspeed and power settings to determine when you might stall, I suggest you fins a new instructor as well.
I agree with the general idea of your post, but ehh... power settings differing with wind conditions and direction of wind?
Headwind vs Tailwind.... Think about it for a minute.....
---------- ADS -----------
  

the-minister31
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:08 am

Re: fifty reasons to find a new instructor

Post by the-minister31 »

CanadianBird wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:22 am

Headwind vs Tailwind.... Think about it for a minute.....

You are saying that the power setting and IAS (not GS, IAS...) required to enter and maintain slow flight depends on wind? Think about it for a minute...
---------- ADS -----------
  

CanadianBird
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:08 am

Re: fifty reasons to find a new instructor

Post by CanadianBird »

the-minister31 wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:27 am
CanadianBird wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:22 am

Headwind vs Tailwind.... Think about it for a minute.....

You are saying that the power setting and IAS (not GS, IAS...) required to enter and maintain slow flight depends on wind? Think about it for a minute...
I"m saying they will be different. They won't be identical. Attitude, GS won't be the same. You'll require different power settings to achieve IAS at different attitudes.
You're telling me that you can fly into a 15 kt headwind, obtain slow flight... Then do a 180, and using the exact same power, and attitude and be back into a similar slow flight situation while maintaining altitude?
---------- ADS -----------
  

the-minister31
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:08 am

Re: fifty reasons to find a new instructor

Post by the-minister31 »

CanadianBird wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:22 am

I"m saying they will be different. They won't be identical. Attitude, GS won't be the same. You'll require different power settings to achieve IAS at different attitudes.
You're telling me that you can fly into a 15 kt headwind, obtain slow flight... Then do a 180, and using the exact same power, and attitude and be back into a similar slow flight situation?
Yes, exactly. The ONLY thing that will change is GS. Lots of thing will affect slow flight parameters : weight, CG, air density, turbulence, etc. but wind is sure as hell not one of them !

Exercice 11 in the well known purple Flight Training Manual...
---------- ADS -----------
  

CanadianBird
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:08 am

Re: fifty reasons to find a new instructor

Post by CanadianBird »

the-minister31 wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:44 am
CanadianBird wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:22 am

I"m saying they will be different. They won't be identical. Attitude, GS won't be the same. You'll require different power settings to achieve IAS at different attitudes.
You're telling me that you can fly into a 15 kt headwind, obtain slow flight... Then do a 180, and using the exact same power, and attitude and be back into a similar slow flight situation?
Yes, exactly. The ONLY thing that will change is GS. Lots of thing will affect slow flight parameters : weight, CG, air density, turbulence, etc. but wind is sure as hell not one of them !

Exercice 11 in the well known purple Flight Training Manual...
Right... you don't obtain more lift in a headwind than a tailwind. There's going to be a difference. It may be minimal, but there will be a difference in power setting and attitude of the aircraft in opposite directions.
---------- ADS -----------
  

the-minister31
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:08 am

Re: fifty reasons to find a new instructor

Post by the-minister31 »

CanadianBird wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:56 am
Right... you don't obtain more lift in a headwind than a tailwind. There's going to be a difference. It may be minimal, but there will be a difference in power setting and attitude of the aircraft in opposite directions.
I'd like to see where you got that from, because HW or TW the IAS will be the same, relative wind is exactly the same... Lift and drag will be the same...
---------- ADS -----------
  

Aviatard
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 432
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:45 am
Location: In a box behind Walmart

Re: fifty reasons to find a new instructor

Post by Aviatard »

CanadianBird wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:56 am
Right... you don't obtain more lift in a headwind than a tailwind. There's going to be a difference. It may be minimal, but there will be a difference in power setting and attitude of the aircraft in opposite directions.
What would be the reason for a difference based on direction?
---------- ADS -----------
  

C.W.E.
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1262
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:22 pm

Re: fifty reasons to find a new instructor

Post by C.W.E. »

you don't obtain more lift in a headwind than a tailwind. There's going to be a difference. It may be minimal, but there will be a difference in power setting and attitude of the aircraft in opposite directions.
So if I am flying a constant rate of turn and maintaining the same altitude flying in a circle in cloud how do I know when to change the power and attitude?
---------- ADS -----------
  

photofly
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 7630
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:47 pm
Location: Making aviation exhausting, everywhere

Re: fifty reasons to find a new instructor

Post by photofly »

from the Ground Speed Indicator.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Strike me down with all of your hatred & your journey towards the dark side will be complete!

Zaibatsu
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 489
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:37 am

Re: fifty reasons to find a new instructor

Post by Zaibatsu »

Lots of people die every year turning from tailwinds to headwinds and visa versa. Remember to throttle back or throttle up.

And everyone knows that the way to land is the fishing for a greaser method. If an instructor tells you otherwise you should find another one.
---------- ADS -----------
  

the-minister31
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:08 am

Re: fifty reasons to find a new instructor

Post by the-minister31 »

Zaibatsu wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:20 pm
Lots of people die every year turning from tailwinds to headwinds and visa versa. Remember to throttle back or throttle up.
That is because of the illusion it creates. You either end up slipping or skiding in a turn at low altitude and low speed. There's a good risk of spin. It has nothing to do with power. In fact reducing power in a headwind to tailwind turn (trying to counteract the increase in GS) will bring you closer to a stall.

Watch the airspeed, apply rudder properly, you'll be fine, no need to add or reduce power.
---------- ADS -----------
  

C.W.E.
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1262
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:22 pm

Re: fifty reasons to find a new instructor

Post by C.W.E. »

Has flying training really gotten to this level where basic knowledge such as this is so lacking?
---------- ADS -----------
  

ayseven
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 311
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:17 am

Re: fifty reasons to find a new instructor

Post by ayseven »

Apparently so. And people like us (although you are WAY older than me) can't figure out where to start, because you need common ground - as it were. I am going to be very near YCD after tomorrow by the way. I will PM you.
---------- ADS -----------
  

digits_
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2729
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:26 am

Re: fifty reasons to find a new instructor

Post by digits_ »

the-minister31 wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:21 pm
Zaibatsu wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:20 pm
Lots of people die every year turning from tailwinds to headwinds and visa versa. Remember to throttle back or throttle up.
That is because of the illusion it creates. You either end up slipping or skiding in a turn at low altitude and low speed. There's a good risk of spin. It has nothing to do with power. In fact reducing power in a headwind to tailwind turn (trying to counteract the increase in GS) will bring you closer to a stall.

Watch the airspeed, apply rudder properly, you'll be fine, no need to add or reduce power.
When your level of sarcasm is soo advanced people are starting to think you are an idiot :rolleyes:
---------- ADS -----------
  
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship

photofly
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 7630
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:47 pm
Location: Making aviation exhausting, everywhere

Re: fifty reasons to find a new instructor

Post by photofly »

I'm pretty sure there's a quote by someone famous:

"Any sufficiently advanced form of humour is indistinguishable from idiocy."

Or something like that.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Strike me down with all of your hatred & your journey towards the dark side will be complete!

the-minister31
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:08 am

Re: fifty reasons to find a new instructor

Post by the-minister31 »

digits_ wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:18 pm
the-minister31 wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:21 pm
Zaibatsu wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:20 pm
Lots of people die every year turning from tailwinds to headwinds and visa versa. Remember to throttle back or throttle up.
That is because of the illusion it creates. You either end up slipping or skiding in a turn at low altitude and low speed. There's a good risk of spin. It has nothing to do with power. In fact reducing power in a headwind to tailwind turn (trying to counteract the increase in GS) will bring you closer to a stall.

Watch the airspeed, apply rudder properly, you'll be fine, no need to add or reduce power.
When your level of sarcasm is soo advanced people are starting to think you are an idiot :rolleyes:

hahaha allright you got me, at this point in the thread I don't know what is sarcasm and what is not !
---------- ADS -----------
  

trey kule
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4588
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:09 pm

Re: fifty reasons to find a new instructor

Post by trey kule »

Any sufficiently advanced form of humour is indistinguishable from idiocy."
Good to know. I am really an advanced humorist.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Everyone is a genius in hindsight

Post Reply

Return to “Flight Training”