"Currently"

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"Currently"

Post by Old timer » Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:54 am

I am trying to decide if I should be amused or annoyed. The amount of pilots who say "currently" in their transmissions is incredible.
Flying just south of Calgary the other night, almost every airplane I heard was adding this to their radio call.
I am a firm believer in saying what is neccessary but nothing more.
Thoughts?
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KissPlusOne
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Re: "Currently"

Post by KissPlusOne » Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:19 am

Just to clarify, you mean that to say, "x-traffic, xxx is CURRENTLY over the town of X at X feet, blah blah blah..." is wasting time on the radio when you could just say, "x-traffic, xxx is OVER the town of X at X feet, blah blah blah"?

It isn't as blatantly useless to say "currently" as it is to say, "any conflicting traffic, please advise." I would much rather eliminate that phrase first before fine tuning our radio speak.

I teach students to be as concise as possible, but IF you need to make a longer call, please do! In the end, it'll be better to take 30 seconds to clarify than 10 seconds to leave people confused, and pulling evasive maneuvers mid downwind because you called in the wrong location...

With that being said, some days when I'm in the circuit with a student, I just turn the radio down because of all the chatter. I train at an uncontrolled airport. We can use our eyes for a bit.

In short, we need to sharpen before we can hone (I think I got that order correct). Let's get rid of ACTPA, and then worry about little words and "umms". Ideally we would all speak with the confidence and brevity of a motivational speaker, but we have to work to that point as a whole. If one guy does it, it's not going to change anything. This industry as a whole needs to accept this challenge before any progress will be made in the way of clear, concise radio communication.
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Heliian
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Re: "Currently"

Post by Heliian » Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:36 am

Yes, it's currently as opposed to where you will be going. No harm here.
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digits_
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Re: "Currently"

Post by digits_ » Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:59 am

Heliian wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:36 am
Yes, it's currently as opposed to where you will be going. No harm here.
:?:

Do you also use currently to indicate the current altitude you are at versues the altitude where you will be at in an hour?

I haven't found a single situation that warrants the use of "currently" in any radio transmission. But please, prove me wrong, I'm curious!
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Re: "Currently"

Post by photofly » Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:17 pm

Do you also use currently to indicate the current altitude you are at versues the altitude where you will be at in an hour?
More or less:

"Golf Foxtrot Echo Lima passing 3700 climbing 6000".

digits_ wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:59 am
I haven't found a single situation that warrants the use of "currently" in any radio transmission. But please, prove me wrong, I'm curious!
Per the CFS page C2:

London radio, Golf Foxtrot Echo Lima position report, YSO 090 023 at 45, 3500, VFR Kingston"

vs.

London radio, Golf Foxtrot Echo Lima position report, YSO 090 023 present time, 3500, VFR Kingston"

"currently", or "present time", or whatever, does have a meaning, even if it can often be left unsaid.

While we're finding micro-itches to scratch, could we ask people not to say "about" or "approximately" - as in, "Golf Foxtrot Echo is about three miles north of the town of Sumspot"? I think we can assume that you don't have a tape measure to the town hall.
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Re: "Currently"

Post by digits_ » Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:59 pm

photofly wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:17 pm
Do you also use currently to indicate the current altitude you are at versues the altitude where you will be at in an hour?
More or less:

"Golf Foxtrot Echo Lima passing 3700 climbing 6000".

digits_ wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:59 am
I haven't found a single situation that warrants the use of "currently" in any radio transmission. But please, prove me wrong, I'm curious!
Per the CFS page C2:

London radio, Golf Foxtrot Echo Lima position report, YSO 090 023 at 45, 3500, VFR Kingston"

vs.

London radio, Golf Foxtrot Echo Lima position report, YSO 090 023 present time, 3500, VFR Kingston"

"currently", or "present time", or whatever, does have a meaning, even if it can often be left unsaid.

While we're finding micro-itches to scratch, could we ask people not to say "about" or "approximately" - as in, "Golf Foxtrot Echo is about three miles north of the town of Sumspot"? I think we can assume that you don't have a tape measure to the town hall.
None of your examples are using "currently". Although I must admit I would be questioning the use of "present time" as well. Nice to know it is in the cfs, but when would it realistically need to be used?

Agreed on the "about" and "approximately" :D
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Re: "Currently"

Post by Aviatard » Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:43 pm

Approximately 4.2 nautical miles...
Lining up for immediate takeoff...
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photofly
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Re: "Currently"

Post by photofly » Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:08 pm

digits_ wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:59 pm
...
"Present time" as a form of words isn't in the CFS; an element of a position report is "time over" - so you're going to have to find a form of words if the time over is "now". You could equally well say "currently". Or "now". Or maybe you should always use the time, and never say "now" or "currently" or "present time". But that seems a bit silly.

But since most people make position reports based on where they are "now", and the appropriate standard for a position report requires time over fix as part of the report, it's not inappropriate to say "now", or "currently", or "present time".

I wonder what CAP413 says ... let me look.
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Kirk: This is a dangerous mission. Likely, one of us will die. The landing party will be me, Spock, McCoy, and Ensign Ricky.
Ensign Ricky: Aw, crap.

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Re: "Currently"

Post by digits_ » Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:18 pm

photofly wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:08 pm
digits_ wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:59 pm
...
"Present time" as a form of words isn't in the CFS; an element of a position report is "time over" - so you're going to have to find a form of words if the time over is "now". You could equally well say "currently". Or maybe you should always use the time, and never say "now" or "currently" or "present time". But that seems a bit silly.

But since most people make position reports based on where they are "now", and the appropriate standard for a position report requires time over fix as part of the report, it's not inappropriate to say "now", or "currently", or "present time".

I wonder what CAP413 says ... let me look.
When would you ever make a position report for a time other than the current time? If you have been out of radar range on some oceanic crossing or remote arctic oceanic flight and you had trouble reaching someone, ok, I can see that you might need to report your last known location.

But for "normal" VFR position reports?

Here is the navcanada booklet regarding VFR phraseology. https://www.navcanada.ca/EN/media/Publi ... eology.pdf

Page 34 deals with position reports. No time is mentioned, "currently" or equivalents aren't used either.
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Re: "Currently"

Post by photofly » Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:27 pm

Time is required as part of a VFR position report in CAP413, the AIM and the CFS, all of which are more formally correct than the Navcanada booklet... you choose.

I’ve given (by necessity) many many position reports ”late”, both VFR and IFR.

I don’t say “currently”, or “present time” on CFA frequencies, but I can see why you might want to.
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Kirk: This is a dangerous mission. Likely, one of us will die. The landing party will be me, Spock, McCoy, and Ensign Ricky.
Ensign Ricky: Aw, crap.

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Re: "Currently"

Post by photofly » Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:11 pm

Can we compromise on “at this time”? :-)
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Kirk: This is a dangerous mission. Likely, one of us will die. The landing party will be me, Spock, McCoy, and Ensign Ricky.
Ensign Ricky: Aw, crap.

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Re: "Currently"

Post by CL-Skadoo! » Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:54 pm

I think one should say “literally” instead
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Re: "Currently"

Post by Big Pistons Forever » Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:59 pm

Personally I would just like to see pilots take a 3 second pause on the frequency change over instead of just changing the freq and immediately start talking. On my last 36 minute flight 3 transmissions were blocked when somebody started talking even though there was already a transmission occurring on the frequency.

In any case there is an easy rule for good radio comms. "engage you brain before your thumb"
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Re: "Currently"

Post by Big Pistons Forever » Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:06 pm


I haven't found a single situation that warrants the use of "currently" in any radio transmission. But please, prove me wrong, I'm curious!
I have to admit that got me thinking. How about when ATC asks you for something you are already doing ?

eg ATC " reduce to min approach speed"

ABC " ABC currently at min approach speed"
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Re: "Currently"

Post by ahramin » Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:50 am

Ooooo. Good one BPF.
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Re: "Currently"

Post by digits_ » Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:29 am

Big Pistons Forever wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:06 pm

I haven't found a single situation that warrants the use of "currently" in any radio transmission. But please, prove me wrong, I'm curious!
I have to admit that got me thinking. How about when ATC asks you for something you are already doing ?

eg ATC " reduce to min approach speed"

ABC " ABC currently at min approach speed"
Okay, I personally wouldn't use currently in that case, but I admit it is the most appropriate example soo far :prayer:

It is also the only (?) example where "Unable" and "Wilco" are both correct statements and will have the same outcome :mrgreen:
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Re: "Currently"

Post by youhavecontrol » Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:10 am

I'm starting to get annoyed by "aaaannnnddd.... Buttsville traffic..." while talking as if they're trying as hard as possible to sound cool.
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Re: "Currently"

Post by digits_ » Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:41 am

".... CXABC with you .... "


WE KNOW
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Re: "Currently"

Post by Heliian » Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:40 pm

Ooh, what about "showing"?

As long as it's understandable, an extra word isn't going to hurt you. Still better than having to listen to everyone's flight plans.
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Re: "Currently"

Post by photofly » Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:50 pm

So can we reach a consensus on the following:

"Uhhh... aaaaand.... C-GABC with you, now currently showing about approximately 3.43 miles east of Sumspot at this time, conflicting traffic please advise..."
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Kirk: This is a dangerous mission. Likely, one of us will die. The landing party will be me, Spock, McCoy, and Ensign Ricky.
Ensign Ricky: Aw, crap.

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Re: "Currently"

Post by Big Pistons Forever » Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:31 pm

photofly wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:50 pm
So can we reach a consensus on the following:

"Uhhh... aaaaand.... C-GABC with you, now currently showing about approximately 3.43 miles east of Sumspot at this time, conflicting traffic please advise..."
I am disappointed in my fellow instructors here :oops:

Let me help you with some corrections

"Uhhh... aaaaand.... Piper PA 28 Warrior Two C-GABC with you, now currently showing about approximately 3.43 miles east of Sumspot at this time, Ummmm Errr descending towards the airport and following Goats Run Lane, aaaaaaand conflicting traffic please advise, over ..." :mrgreen:
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Re: "Currently"

Post by photofly » Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:04 pm

Touche.
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Kirk: This is a dangerous mission. Likely, one of us will die. The landing party will be me, Spock, McCoy, and Ensign Ricky.
Ensign Ricky: Aw, crap.

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Re: "Currently"

Post by 5x5 » Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:05 am

While we’re at it, one more little correction...

"Uhhh...advisory traffic on 126.7.... aaaaand.... Piper PA 28 Warrior Two C-GABC with you, now currently showing about approximately 3.43 miles east of Sumspot at this time, Ummmm Errr descending towards the airport and following Goats Run Lane, aaaaaaand conflicting traffic please advise, over ..." :mrgreen:
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Re: "Currently"

Post by TG » Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:16 am

5x5 wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:05 am
While we’re at it, one more little correction...

"Uhhh...advisory traffic on 126.7.... aaaaand.... Piper PA 28 Warrior Two C-GABC with you, now currently showing about approximately 3.43 miles east of Sumspot at this time, Ummmm Errr descending towards the airport and following Goats Run Lane, aaaaaaand conflicting traffic please advise, over ..." :mrgreen:
Don't forget to repeat the all thing in French :mrgreen:
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Re: "Currently"

Post by iflyforpie » Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:07 pm

Let’s not forget the ten minute back and forth for a “resolution advisory” between two or more planes occupying the same 200 cubic miles of airspace. Always laterally and looking and continuing to call.. rather than vertically and forgetting.
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Geez did I say that....? Or just think it....?

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