Flight test before written exam ?

[kevin552000]

Hello,
I heard recently that because lots of TC facilities are still closed we are allowed to do a fly test before the written exam until February or March 2021.
I'd like to know if I can do my IFR flight test before my INRAT.

Have somebody heard about that ?
I cannot find anything on the TC website.

Thanks.
Kevin

[praveen4143]

https://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/regs ... n/3308.htm

[kevin552000]

Thanks a lot

[Heavy Rayn]

I mean you can, but why would you want to? Way better idea to just write the INRAT and pass it to prove your knowledge to the examiner before hand, rather than having essentially an oral INRAT exam for your flight test ground brief.

[RILEY]

I mean you can, but why would you want to? Way better idea to just write the INRAT and pass it to prove your knowledge to the examiner before hand, rather than having essentially an oral INRAT exam for your flight test ground brief.

Why not ? Too each their own. If you can read
& understand CAP plates, fly a hold & a missed, understand runway lighting, possibly airway/air route altitudes ect you’ll be golden for the flight test.
INRAT goes beyond the surface that isn’t necessarily touched on the ground brief.

[Pilotdaddy]

I mean you can, but why would you want to? Way better idea to just write the INRAT and pass it to prove your knowledge to the examiner before hand, rather than having essentially an oral INRAT exam for your flight test ground brief.

I think, for one, it's been tough to actually schedule the exam, at least in Ontario. Potentially, you could have people out there who are already INRAT written ready, but just cannot write it due to the backlog with TC.

Are you saying that the flight exam will have a longer oral if you don't already have your INRAT written?

[kevin552000]

I mean you can, but why would you want to? Way better idea to just write the INRAT and pass it to prove your knowledge to the examiner before hand, rather than having essentially an oral INRAT exam for your flight test ground brief.

I'm almost ready to write it but all TC facilities near me (within 3 hours drive) are still closed. Also as I heard the INRAT is one of the most difficult test from TC and if I fail I'll have to wait at least 2 more weeks.
Also my flight school doesn't have any multi-engine and I'll have to move to another flight school to do my multi/group 1 IFR. I'll try to do everything inside 2 weeks max bacause I'll have a double rent during that time. Then if I don't have my INRAT for some reason I still can pass my flight test.

[kevin552000]

I think, for one, it's been tough to actually schedule the exam, at least in Ontario. Potentially, you could have people out there who are already INRAT written ready, but just cannot write it due to the backlog with TC.

Are you saying that the flight exam will have a longer oral if you don't already have your INRAT written?

You're right, I'm in Ontario.

[Heavy Rayn]

I mean you can, but why would you want to? Way better idea to just write the INRAT and pass it to prove your knowledge to the examiner before hand, rather than having essentially an oral INRAT exam for your flight test ground brief.

I think, for one, it's been tough to actually schedule the exam, at least in Ontario. Potentially, you could have people out there who are already INRAT written ready, but just cannot write it due to the backlog with TC.

Are you saying that the flight exam will have a longer oral if you don't already have your INRAT written?

I’m an instructor in Ontario. I’ve definitely heard that it has been difficult to schedule exams. I know TC has been calling people that had exams booked. I wonder if a fail occurs for somebody what the rebooking situation will be like. Very valid argument that getting a slot to write has been and will continue to be difficult.

I think it may increase the difficulty of the ground portion a bit, however I’m not an examiner and can’t say for certain. It likely depends on the examiner and the flight test candidate as well. I’d imagine that having the INRAT complete would show the examiner that you have a solid knowledge base, whereas without it complete, even though you may have the knowledge, there is no proof of that until the examiner realizes that the candidate does (or does not) have the knowledge. Obviously the Flight Test Guide will still be the foundation of the oral portion but I feel like there could be more follow up questions and overall a harder oral experience. Just my opinion.

[praveen4143]

I think a good flight instructor should be able to ensure that their student is prepared enough for the ground portion of a flight test. Totally agree that completing the written prior will help a lot, but so too can good instruction (albeit with a little more attention to detail)

[kevin552000]

Hello everybody,
Starting to get ready for my IFR flight test but still didn't do my INRAT.
I'm wondering : because the possibility to do the IFR flight test before writing the INRAT is until January 15th 2021, does it mean that if I pass my flight test next month, but didn't write my INRAT for any reason before next January 15th I'll lose the benefit of my flight test and will have to do it again ?
It's not really clear on TC website.

[stephen6ix]

I mean you can, but why would you want to? Way better idea to just write the INRAT and pass it to prove your knowledge to the examiner before hand, rather than having essentially an oral INRAT exam for your flight test ground brief.

I'm almost ready to write it but all TC facilities near me (within 3 hours drive) are still closed. Also as I heard the INRAT is one of the most difficult test from TC and if I fail I'll have to wait at least 2 more weeks.
Also my flight school doesn't have any multi-engine and I'll have to move to another flight school to do my multi/group 1 IFR. I'll try to do everything inside 2 weeks max bacause I'll have a double rent during that time. Then if I don't have my INRAT for some reason I still can pass my flight test.

I can guarantee you it won’t be a two week wait, I wrote it and failed the first try and it took 6 weeks for me to rewrite and the same minute I got my result was the same minute I replied to the email requesting a new date and it took them two weeks to reply to that then I had to resend the documents they asked for and by the time the emails were sent back and forth (because they’re slow in responding) 6 weeks passed

[stephen6ix]

I mean you can, but why would you want to? Way better idea to just write the INRAT and pass it to prove your knowledge to the examiner before hand, rather than having essentially an oral INRAT exam for your flight test ground brief.

I think, for one, it's been tough to actually schedule the exam, at least in Ontario. Potentially, you could have people out there who are already INRAT written ready, but just cannot write it due to the backlog with TC.

Are you saying that the flight exam will have a longer oral if you don't already have your INRAT written?

I think it may increase the difficulty of the ground portion a bit, however I’m not an examiner and can’t say for certain. It likely depends on the examiner and the flight test candidate as well. I’d imagine that having the INRAT complete would show the examiner that you have a solid knowledge base, whereas without it complete, even though you may have the knowledge, there is no proof of that until the examiner realizes that the candidate does (or does not) have the knowledge. Obviously the Flight Test Guide will still be the foundation of the oral portion but I feel like there could be more follow up questions and overall a harder oral experience. Just my opinion.

This is very true and valid, I was going to do my flight test first but both my school manager and cfi highly advised against that because a passed written exam is proof you have Atleast some sort of solid foundation of knowledge to begins with, so if you go into the oral without it that gives the examiner reason to now lean into you more to test your knowledge so an oral that could have easily been a 0.5 can be 1.5

[Big Pistons Forever]

Pilot Examiners are required to follow the Instrumnt Rating Flightg Test Guide.

IFR knowledge requiremetns are covered in exercise 2

Aim

To determine that the candidate has sufficient knowledge of IFR procedures and the competence to safely conduct the assigned flight under Instrument Flight Rules.

Description

The candidate will demonstrate a practical knowledge of IFR procedures by responding to a brief series of oral questions posed by the examiner that pertain to the planned flight and other questions pertinent to IFR flight in other areas and by demonstrating a competence to apply that knowledge during the flight.

Your instructor should have ensured you can meet the aim of the FTG before recommending you for a test. If I was doing the test I would not treat the ground portion of any differently despite the person not having done the INRAT for 2 reasons.

1) The candidate still has to pass the test to get the rating so he/she will not be doing any real IFR flying right after the ride, and
2) I can get a pretty good idea of the level of understanding of IFR procedures and concepts with a few well chosen questions. The answers to those will determine how long the ground portion lasts or if we even get to the airplane

In any case I would the suggest the fact that an individual has passed the INRAT does not have a strong correlation to how well they are prepared to actually fly IFR in the real world.

The really good news for students IMO is that laid of 704/705 pilots are returning to FTU's to teach IFR and thus bringing considerable real world IFR experience back to flight training, something that in general was not there before. If I was a student those are the instructors I would be seeking out.