Has anybody given up?

[newlygrounded]

A few years ago I started with a goal of working for a big airline in a few years, I was in my mid 20's and didn't have to money to commit to flying so I just studied theory and saved up for the flying. 4 years later I've been flying as much as I can but due to weather and how busy schools have been I'm multiple years into getting a PPL and there is still no end in sight! A lot of drama at the school has really taken the wind out of my sails as well.

Even in the best of times a year ago the industry entails 5 or 6 years of poverty wages living somewhere far away (so all your income goes to rent) before you get get into one of our two major carriers. If you don't own a place you're SOL and unlikely to ever be able to afford ot buy one.

Even once your in the pay, and job security is pretty terrible for the first few years. It looks like things are actually going to be even worse after the recovery due to weak bargaining.

I'm not sure if anyone else will disagree but I feel if you're in your 20's or 30's this career will take a giant bite out of you, and washing out with leave you with a lot of regret.

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

No.

(And by the way, welcome to AVCanada!)

[tsgarp]

A few years ago I started with a goal of working for a big airline in a few years, I was in my mid 20's and didn't have to money to commit to flying so I just studied theory and saved up for the flying. 4 years later I've been flying as much as I can but due to weather and how busy schools have been I'm multiple years into getting a PPL and there is still no end in sight! A lot of drama at the school has really taken the wind out of my sails as well.

Even in the best of times a year ago the industry entails 5 or 6 years of poverty wages living somewhere far away (so all your income goes to rent) before you get get into one of our two major carriers. If you don't own a place you're SOL and unlikely to ever be able to afford ot buy one.

Even once your in the pay, and job security is pretty terrible for the first few years. It looks like things are actually going to be even worse after the recovery due to weak bargaining.

I'm not sure if anyone else will disagree but I feel if you're in your 20's or 30's this career will take a giant bite out of you, and washing out with leave you with a lot of regret.

Everything you have said is quite accurate (except the never owning a house part). Success in aviation has a lot more to do with tenacity than innate skill. The people who succeed are usually the ones that just never give up.

I will qualify what I said above with the following; It sounds like you might be encountering a bit more than the average level of difficulties. It should not take you multiple years to get a PPL. How many hours do you have, how often are you flying and what is the nature of the drama at your school?

[ant_321]

I think you need to find a new school. See if that gives you a more positive outlook. I did a PPL in 6 weeks. There’s no way it should be taking anyone years.

[Yycjetdriver]

A few years ago I started with a goal of working for a big airline in a few years, I was in my mid 20's and didn't have to money to commit to flying so I just studied theory and saved up for the flying. 4 years later I've been flying as much as I can but due to weather and how busy schools have been I'm multiple years into getting a PPL and there is still no end in sight! A lot of drama at the school has really taken the wind out of my sails as well.

Even in the best of times a year ago the industry entails 5 or 6 years of poverty wages living somewhere far away (so all your income goes to rent) before you get get into one of our two major carriers. If you don't own a place you're SOL and unlikely to ever be able to afford ot buy one.

Even once your in the pay, and job security is pretty terrible for the first few years. It looks like things are actually going to be even worse after the recovery due to weak bargaining.

I'm not sure if anyone else will disagree but I feel if you're in your 20's or 30's this career will take a giant bite out of you, and washing out with leave you with a lot of regret.

While flying has major issues as a career, perhaps you set unrealistic goals also. To say you gave yourself a couple years to be working for a big Airline, that seems unrealistic especially while only attending school part-time and not attending a college program that had a Airline pathway program.

[altiplano]

100% tenacity.

A lot of the goals and timelines I set when starting out came and went by, but you just have to keep going and trying to progress.

As mentioned though, years for a PPL is inappropriate. You should be a few months or so, you should be able to do PPL/CPL/IFR in a year if you're motivated.

[newlygrounded]

I think you need to find a new school. See if that gives you a more positive outlook. I did a PPL in 6 weeks. There’s no way it should be taking anyone years.

Ironically it makes me want to give up more, seems like a sign more than anything.

(And by the way, welcome to AVCanada!)

Thanks I heard people here are quit mean but hopefully that's not the case.

As mentioned though, years for a PPL is inappropriate. You should be a few months or so, you should be able to do PPL/CPL/IFR in a year if you're motivated.

Aside from the lockdowns that lasted several months, our school is so busy a few days of bad weather mean I'm on the ground for weeks or months. I will however be well into 100 hours if I chose to keep going (unlikely due to the difficulty of making this a viable career)

[TalkingPie]

I'll be one to admit it as well: it took me nearly two years and 120 hours start to finish, part-time, for my PPL. Yes, it can be - and commonly is - done in a few months. Mine wasn't. Scheduling issues, weather, confidence, and just plain talent are factors that I attribute to this. I don't see that as a reason to give up. I see it as judging a professional sprinter's potential by how long it took them to learn how to walk. For what it's worth, my check ride went quite well and I'm now ready to really start learning to fly.

But I have to admit that I haven't flown since my check ride. Along with pilot opportunities, Covid took my income stream. As a result I decided to finish up my PPL during my layoff, but to take a break after that until my finances recover a bit. It's not like there's a pile of pilot jobs to rush off to right now, anyway. I figure that will change again within the next couple of years.

I went into this in my mid-thirties already with a spouse, a job and a house (staying out of the GTA and its insanity is the key to achieving this, by the way), and I've always viewed flying as an expensive hobby which will hopefully turn into a career. I continue to look at it as such, will continue to study the theoretical aspects, and I'll see how things play out. If nothing else, nobody can take away from me the fact that I earned my pilot's license.

[newlygrounded]

I'll be one to admit it as well: it took me nearly two years and 120 hours start to finish, part-time, for my PPL. Yes, it can be - and commonly is - done in a few months. Mine wasn't. Scheduling issues, weather, confidence, and just plain talent are factors that I attribute to this. I don't see that as a reason to give up. I see it as judging a professional .'s potential by how long it took them to learn how to walk. For what it's worth, my check ride went quite well and I'm now ready to really start learning to fly.

But I have to admit that I haven't flown since my check ride. Along with pilot opportunities, Covid took my income stream. As a result I decided to finish up my PPL during my layoff, but to take a break after that until my finances recover a bit. It's not like there's a pile of pilot jobs to rush off to right now, anyway. I figure that will change again within the next couple of years.

I went into this in my mid-thirties already with a spouse, a job and a house (staying out of the GTA and its insanity is the key to achieving this, by the way), and I've always viewed flying as an expensive hobby which will hopefully turn into a career. I continue to look at it as such, will continue to study the theoretical aspects, and I'll see how things play out. If nothing else, nobody can take away from me the fact that I earned my pilot's license.

Honestly I'm in a similar boat, my work is kind of shaky right now and even in the best of times spending this much feels a bit careless. Plus I'm a bit younger than you, and don't have a place or a partner, and I feel getting one when you know you're going to make peanuts and move around Canada seems unfair for me to put someone through.


I've done my cross country and it honestly just felt like a load of stress due to how rentals work. To me post PPL flying (for fun) doesn't even seem enjoyable as much as it pains me to admit. Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way though!

[shamrock104]

I do believe that this will take some time. The vaccine is on its way and of course it will take time to get divided among the masses, the elderly and those with other health issues first before I expect. People will want to travel again but may not be in a position to because of employment uncertainty so this will again add time to jobs in aviation becoming available.
This of course probably applies to a bunch of occupations and only time will tell where recovery will be the fastest.

[TalkingPie]

For a pilot starting out you're better off not owning yet. I made the decision to fly after I bought a house, otherwise I wouldn't have done it, either. There are much worse things in life than renting your accommodations - I happily did it for 10 years - and you give up a measure of freedom when you tie yourself to one location.

I feel my share of discomfort flying, too. I think it's a function of not being 20 anymore and realizing that there are risks involved for a low-time pilot going off on his own, and that there are many things I'm not skilled at, and haven't seen, yet. A PPL is really just a license to start really learning to fly. Every time I've tried something new I faced a certain amount of discomfort - it's part of growing.

I'm much more risk-averse now than when I was doing stupid things on fairly fast street motorcycles in my twenties or riding down mountains on a bicycle in my teens. The discomfort is at least in part an acknowledgement that there are risks involved in what we're doing, and will subside with more experience, I think, and at least in my case is outweighed by the excitement of flying. If you don't feel the same way, maybe you should consider if flying is what you want to do.

[photofly]

Referring to the thread title, not many people who have "given up" are going still to be reading around this forum.

[newlygrounded]

For a pilot starting out you're better off not owning yet. I made the decision to fly after I bought a house, otherwise I wouldn't have done it, either. There are much worse things in life than renting your accommodations - I happily did it for 10 years - and you give up a measure of freedom when you tie yourself to one location.

I feel my share of discomfort flying, too. I think it's a function of not being 20 anymore and realizing that there are risks involved for a low-time pilot going off on his own, and that there are many things I'm not skilled at, and haven't seen, yet. A PPL is really just a license to start really learning to fly. Every time I've tried something new I faced a certain amount of discomfort - it's part of growing.

I'm much more risk-averse now than when I was doing stupid things on fairly fast street motorcycles in my twenties or riding down mountains on a bicycle in my teens. The discomfort is at least in part an acknowledgement that there are risks involved in what we're doing, and will subside with more experience, I think, and at least in my case is outweighed by the excitement of flying. If you don't feel the same way, maybe you should consider if flying is what you want to do.

A big issue for me is house prices always go up where I am, in 1 month they went up $100,000 and they kept going up the rest of the year. I honestly don't find flying even fun anymore but I'm not sure if that's just the burnout talking or is it a permanent thing.

[Tuza]

A few years ago I started with a goal of working for a big airline in a few years, I was in my mid 20's and didn't have to money to commit to flying so I just studied theory and saved up for the flying. 4 years later I've been flying as much as I can but due to weather and how busy schools have been I'm multiple years into getting a PPL and there is still no end in sight! A lot of drama at the school has really taken the wind out of my sails as well.

Even in the best of times a year ago the industry entails 5 or 6 years of poverty wages living somewhere far away (so all your income goes to rent) before you get get into one of our two major carriers. If you don't own a place you're SOL and unlikely to ever be able to afford ot buy one.

Even once your in the pay, and job security is pretty terrible for the first few years. It looks like things are actually going to be even worse after the recovery due to weak bargaining.

I'm not sure if anyone else will disagree but I feel if you're in your 20's or 30's this career will take a giant bite out of you, and washing out with leave you with a lot of regret.

You know, I started my PPL in 2007. Worked the ramp to pay for it. Got pregnant in 08' and at 5 months pregs, I finished it. I almost didn't but was pushed (and I'm glad). It took a year and a bit because I paid out of pocket. Fast forward 5 years, 3 kids later, I come back in 2015 for my CPL. Finish it all (requirements minus the 200nm) all within a few months (student loans lol) and yes, I owned a house and worked a full time job as well as helping my two oldest in school, and then everything that could go wrong did and I never finished that stupid thing until 2017 with build-up complete in 2018. Then divorce (also a pilot lol), 2 moves and 3 schools and here I am in 2019 to start the Instructor rating. (I had already finished 3/4 the IFR including having already passed the INRAT and IATRA and still full time working) and Haze came from the BC forest fires (in 2018 summer). So disgruntled, left to join the reserves. I won't get into details, but came back to aviation (because I am a sucker) and in 2019 prepared to do the class 4. The class 1 I was with didn't work out and the old class 1 whose school I trained at, couldn't take me until May 2020.

So, in a new city, newly married as of May 2020 ironically, still only just 3 kids, lots of money via student loans and lots of time...but here I am only 3/4 of the gs finished, over 300 pages of lesson plans complete backed up 3x on multiple hardrives, and no flying for the rating done yet.

I almost spit out my coffee reading your post because it is so funny and I was finding myself getting lazy (already finished the Sharper edge written exam book and was playing more video games as of late) and realized life was giving me a strong sign!

Don't give up. Regular jobs suck. I've had many and in many varying careers. Tenacity is key. The best 3 instructors I had were in order; disciplined, fun, and the 3rd no matter what happened to her, never gave up. They're all captains at 705s. Some got their ppl after I did. But who cares. If you love it do it! And as a mom of 3, I LOVE taking my kids up. That's their norm. That makes me happy. But also I'm stubborn. Probs should have gotten into boxing. Would have ended much sooner.

Good luck!

[altiplano]

For a pilot starting out you're better off not owning yet. I made the decision to fly after I bought a house, otherwise I wouldn't have done it, either. There are much worse things in life than renting your accommodations - I happily did it for 10 years - and you give up a measure of freedom when you tie yourself to one location.

I feel my share of discomfort flying, too. I think it's a function of not being 20 anymore and realizing that there are risks involved for a low-time pilot going off on his own, and that there are many things I'm not skilled at, and haven't seen, yet. A PPL is really just a license to start really learning to fly. Every time I've tried something new I faced a certain amount of discomfort - it's part of growing.

I'm much more risk-averse now than when I was doing stupid things on fairly fast street motorcycles in my twenties or riding down mountains on a bicycle in my teens. The discomfort is at least in part an acknowledgement that there are risks involved in what we're doing, and will subside with more experience, I think, and at least in my case is outweighed by the excitement of flying. If you don't feel the same way, maybe you should consider if flying is what you want to do.

A big issue for me is house prices always go up where I am, in 1 month they went up $100,000 and they kept going up the rest of the year. I honestly don't find flying even fun anymore but I'm not sure if that's just the burnout talking or is it a permanent thing.

This business chews people up and spits them out, it's not fair. To succeed you will have to work hard, get a few lucky breaks, at times maybe make shit money for significant responsibility, you'll probably get burned at least once, you might move across this country and back and have to live in podunk towns, but on the good side housing might not be all that expensive... and then again you still might not "make it."

If you can't handle not affording a house in the city of your choice today, you better get used to it, because you haven't even got your hypothetical first job yet, let alone your license, and nobody will be paying you much when you do.

So if you're going to go all "Woe is me, I'm burnt out and can't afford a house" and you don't even have your ppl yet, you should drop out now, forget about it, and find something else to do with your life.

[newlygrounded]

For a pilot starting out you're better off not owning yet. I made the decision to fly after I bought a house, otherwise I wouldn't have done it, either. There are much worse things in life than renting your accommodations - I happily did it for 10 years - and you give up a measure of freedom when you tie yourself to one location.

I feel my share of discomfort flying, too. I think it's a function of not being 20 anymore and realizing that there are risks involved for a low-time pilot going off on his own, and that there are many things I'm not skilled at, and haven't seen, yet. A PPL is really just a license to start really learning to fly. Every time I've tried something new I faced a certain amount of discomfort - it's part of growing.

I'm much more risk-averse now than when I was doing stupid things on fairly fast street motorcycles in my twenties or riding down mountains on a bicycle in my teens. The discomfort is at least in part an acknowledgement that there are risks involved in what we're doing, and will subside with more experience, I think, and at least in my case is outweighed by the excitement of flying. If you don't feel the same way, maybe you should consider if flying is what you want to do.

A big issue for me is house prices always go up where I am, in 1 month they went up $100,000 and they kept going up the rest of the year. I honestly don't find flying even fun anymore but I'm not sure if that's just the burnout talking or is it a permanent thing.

This business chews people up and spits them out, it's not fair. To succeed you will have to work hard, get a few lucky breaks, at times maybe make shit money for significant responsibility, you'll probably get burned at least once, you might move across this country and back and have to live in podunk towns, but on the good side housing might not be all that expensive... and then again you still might not "make it."

If you can't handle not affording a house in the city of your choice today, you better get used to it, because you haven't even got your hypothetical first job yet, let alone your license, and nobody will be paying you much when you do.

So if you're going to go all "Woe is me, I'm burnt out and can't afford a house" and you don't even have your ppl yet, you should drop out now, forget about it, and find something else to do with your life.

I don't totally agree with what your saying but I'm gonna throw in the towel and call my school when they open to cancel the rest of my bookings

[rookiepilot]

A few years ago I started with a goal of working for a big airline in a few years, I was in my mid 20's and didn't have to money to commit to flying so I just studied theory and saved up for the flying. 4 years later I've been flying as much as I can but due to weather and how busy schools have been I'm multiple years into getting a PPL and there is still no end in sight! A lot of drama at the school has really taken the wind out of my sails as well.

Even in the best of times a year ago the industry entails 5 or 6 years of poverty wages living somewhere far away (so all your income goes to rent) before you get get into one of our two major carriers. If you don't own a place you're SOL and unlikely to ever be able to afford ot buy one.

Even once your in the pay, and job security is pretty terrible for the first few years. It looks like things are actually going to be even worse after the recovery due to weak bargaining.

I'm not sure if anyone else will disagree but I feel if you're in your 20's or 30's this career will take a giant bite out of you, and washing out with leave you with a lot of regret.

You know, I started my PPL in 2007. Worked the ramp to pay for it. Got pregnant in 08' and at 5 months pregs, I finished it. I almost didn't but was pushed (and I'm glad). It took a year and a bit because I paid out of pocket. Fast forward 5 years, 3 kids later, I come back in 2015 for my CPL. Finish it all (requirements minus the 200nm) all within a few months (student loans lol) and yes, I owned a house and worked a full time job as well as helping my two oldest in school, and then everything that could go wrong did and I never finished that stupid thing until 2017 with build-up complete in 2018. Then divorce (also a pilot lol), 2 moves and 3 schools and here I am in 2019 to start the Instructor rating. (I had already finished 3/4 the IFR including having already passed the INRAT and IATRA and still full time working) and Haze came from the BC forest fires (in 2018 summer). So disgruntled, left to join the reserves. I won't get into details, but came back to aviation (because I am a sucker) and in 2019 prepared to do the class 4. The class 1 I was with didn't work out and the old class 1 whose school I trained at, couldn't take me until May 2020.

So, in a new city, newly married as of May 2020 ironically, still only just 3 kids, lots of money via student loans and lots of time...but here I am only 3/4 of the gs finished, over 300 pages of lesson plans complete backed up 3x on multiple hardrives, and no flying for the rating done yet.

I almost spit out my coffee reading your post because it is so funny and I was finding myself getting lazy (already finished the Sharper edge written exam book and was playing more video games as of late) and realized life was giving me a strong sign!

Don't give up. Regular jobs suck. I've had many and in many varying careers. Tenacity is key. The best 3 instructors I had were in order; disciplined, fun, and the 3rd no matter what happened to her, never gave up. They're all captains at 705s. Some got their ppl after I did. But who cares. If you love it do it! And as a mom of 3, I LOVE taking my kids up. That's their norm. That makes me happy. But also I'm stubborn. Probs should have gotten into boxing. Would have ended much sooner.

Good luck!

I admire very few people.
I admire this story.

[skybluetrek]

A few years ago I started with a goal of working for a big airline in a few years, I was in my mid 20's and didn't have to money to commit to flying so I just studied theory and saved up for the flying. 4 years later I've been flying as much as I can but due to weather and how busy schools have been I'm multiple years into getting a PPL and there is still no end in sight! A lot of drama at the school has really taken the wind out of my sails as well.

Even in the best of times a year ago the industry entails 5 or 6 years of poverty wages living somewhere far away (so all your income goes to rent) before you get get into one of our two major carriers. If you don't own a place you're SOL and unlikely to ever be able to afford ot buy one.

Even once your in the pay, and job security is pretty terrible for the first few years. It looks like things are actually going to be even worse after the recovery due to weak bargaining.

I'm not sure if anyone else will disagree but I feel if you're in your 20's or 30's this career will take a giant bite out of you, and washing out with leave you with a lot of regret.

You know, I started my PPL in 2007. Worked the ramp to pay for it. Got pregnant in 08' and at 5 months pregs, I finished it. I almost didn't but was pushed (and I'm glad). It took a year and a bit because I paid out of pocket. Fast forward 5 years, 3 kids later, I come back in 2015 for my CPL. Finish it all (requirements minus the 200nm) all within a few months (student loans lol) and yes, I owned a house and worked a full time job as well as helping my two oldest in school, and then everything that could go wrong did and I never finished that stupid thing until 2017 with build-up complete in 2018. Then divorce (also a pilot lol), 2 moves and 3 schools and here I am in 2019 to start the Instructor rating. (I had already finished 3/4 the IFR including having already passed the INRAT and IATRA and still full time working) and Haze came from the BC forest fires (in 2018 summer). So disgruntled, left to join the reserves. I won't get into details, but came back to aviation (because I am a sucker) and in 2019 prepared to do the class 4. The class 1 I was with didn't work out and the old class 1 whose school I trained at, couldn't take me until May 2020.

So, in a new city, newly married as of May 2020 ironically, still only just 3 kids, lots of money via student loans and lots of time...but here I am only 3/4 of the gs finished, over 300 pages of lesson plans complete backed up 3x on multiple hardrives, and no flying for the rating done yet.

I almost spit out my coffee reading your post because it is so funny and I was finding myself getting lazy (already finished the Sharper edge written exam book and was playing more video games as of late) and realized life was giving me a strong sign!

Don't give up. Regular jobs suck. I've had many and in many varying careers. Tenacity is key. The best 3 instructors I had were in order; disciplined, fun, and the 3rd no matter what happened to her, never gave up. They're all captains at 705s. Some got their ppl after I did. But who cares. If you love it do it! And as a mom of 3, I LOVE taking my kids up. That's their norm. That makes me happy. But also I'm stubborn. Probs should have gotten into boxing. Would have ended much sooner.

Good luck!

I admire you. That's a lot of grit. You go girl!

[rxl]

A few years ago I started with a goal of working for a big airline in a few years, I was in my mid 20's and didn't have to money to commit to flying so I just studied theory and saved up for the flying. 4 years later I've been flying as much as I can but due to weather and how busy schools have been I'm multiple years into getting a PPL and there is still no end in sight! A lot of drama at the school has really taken the wind out of my sails as well.

Even in the best of times a year ago the industry entails 5 or 6 years of poverty wages living somewhere far away (so all your income goes to rent) before you get get into one of our two major carriers. If you don't own a place you're SOL and unlikely to ever be able to afford ot buy one.

Even once your in the pay, and job security is pretty terrible for the first few years. It looks like things are actually going to be even worse after the recovery due to weak bargaining.

I'm not sure if anyone else will disagree but I feel if you're in your 20's or 30's this career will take a giant bite out of you, and washing out with leave you with a lot of regret.

You know, I started my PPL in 2007. Worked the ramp to pay for it. Got pregnant in 08' and at 5 months pregs, I finished it. I almost didn't but was pushed (and I'm glad). It took a year and a bit because I paid out of pocket. Fast forward 5 years, 3 kids later, I come back in 2015 for my CPL. Finish it all (requirements minus the 200nm) all within a few months (student loans lol) and yes, I owned a house and worked a full time job as well as helping my two oldest in school, and then everything that could go wrong did and I never finished that stupid thing until 2017 with build-up complete in 2018. Then divorce (also a pilot lol), 2 moves and 3 schools and here I am in 2019 to start the Instructor rating. (I had already finished 3/4 the IFR including having already passed the INRAT and IATRA and still full time working) and Haze came from the BC forest fires (in 2018 summer). So disgruntled, left to join the reserves. I won't get into details, but came back to aviation (because I am a sucker) and in 2019 prepared to do the class 4. The class 1 I was with didn't work out and the old class 1 whose school I trained at, couldn't take me until May 2020.

So, in a new city, newly married as of May 2020 ironically, still only just 3 kids, lots of money via student loans and lots of time...but here I am only 3/4 of the gs finished, over 300 pages of lesson plans complete backed up 3x on multiple hardrives, and no flying for the rating done yet.

I almost spit out my coffee reading your post because it is so funny and I was finding myself getting lazy (already finished the Sharper edge written exam book and was playing more video games as of late) and realized life was giving me a strong sign!

Don't give up. Regular jobs suck. I've had many and in many varying careers. Tenacity is key. The best 3 instructors I had were in order; disciplined, fun, and the 3rd no matter what happened to her, never gave up. They're all captains at 705s. Some got their ppl after I did. But who cares. If you love it do it! And as a mom of 3, I LOVE taking my kids up. That's their norm. That makes me happy. But also I'm stubborn. Probs should have gotten into boxing. Would have ended much sooner.

Good luck!

You Tuzla WILL be a success!
Good luck to you and the others in this thread.

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

I would agree.

First - Tuza, your story is truly inspiring. I honestly don't think I would have accomplished half what you did, were I in your shoes.

Second - newlygrounded... please keep in mind that putting your training on hold does not mean giving up entirely. Tuza's story is a testament to that. You can always come back and finish later. Please don't give up on the dream.