Toronto Airways.

N2 · Post by N2 » Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:57 am

Mcrit sometimes it sure felt like it! Anyways it doesn't matter to me anymore I'm out of it now.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:11 pm

How do flying schools teach engine failures on a twin, when the temperature is way below zero?

Cat

High Flyer · Post by **High Flyer** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:05 pm

Normally the engine is set up for zero thrust. Usually 1200 RPM and around 18 in. manifold.

Benwa · Post by **Benwa** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:34 pm

To simulate a feathered engine you should mention.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:27 pm

I'll try again and be more specific.

TC in all its wisdom seems to require a full feathering of an engine during multi engine flight training. ( it all depends on how you interpet their requirements. ) bang head

So we are in Winnipeg and it is well below zero most of the winter.

Do you do full feather shut downs to comply with TC missguided flight training requirements.......missguided as in creating an emergency when none existed before you shut it down.

Cat

Benwa · Post by **Benwa** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 6:50 pm

Now don't get mad at me Cat !! I was talking to the High Flyer !

One of the TC guy here in Quebec is now scared as $hit of simulated engine failures. They indeed created a real engine failure.

I never did a full feather during a ride with TC or a DFTE.

Only throttle back, and only for a short lapse, then zero thrust setting to simulate the feathered engine.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:24 pm

Benwa.

Naw, I was not answering you I was just making a general comment.

I will give my opinion on feathering an engine during training.

I do not, will not feather an engine in flight unless there is mechanical malfunction and reason to do so.

The argument that you need to experience a feathered engine during training does not make sense, using that line of thinking you should put some bullets in your new 357 magnum and point it at your head and pull the trigger so you can experience how it works.

When I owned a flight school I went through the B.S. with TC on the feathering requirements and followed their written requirements. Full feathering proceedures must be demonstrated....the active word is " procedures" and that is what I demonstrated...the procedure on how to feather and unfeather.

TC told me that I must actually do a full feather and unfeather in flight during training for the multi rating, I told tham that I would not and never did.

It is noteworthy they will not let you feather when there is one of their inspectors in the airplane...I wonder why.

So what do all you instructors do about single engine demos in below zero weather?

Cat

mcrit · Post by **mcrit** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:32 pm

OK-> For a simulated engine failure I try and do it when the engine has been running at a lower power setting anyway, (procedure turn, downwind). This helps to minimize the the temperature gradient. Then I bring the throttle back until it's open about a quarter inch, when the student calls for simulated feather I set about 12". Now, the question was, 'How do you do this in the winter?' Well, I've developed this method, I was going to patten it, but.... what the hell, I'll share it with the group. During the walk around I decide which engine I'm going to fail. I rig a bottle of 180 proof rum with a special ignitor. I stash this contraption in the cowling of the engine that is going to fail, and attach the ignitor to the alternate air cable. When the engine fails in flight, the student selects alternate air and ignites the rum. The burning rum keeps the engine warm. Once the student is done with the engine failure I give them a pitot static failure and cover the ASI, VSI and altimeter. I then distract the student by having them tune a radio. While they tune the radio I adjust the attitude indicator so that we are diving close to Vne. The resulting slip stream blows out the rum fire. Once the rum fire is out I uncover the ASI etc and then yell at the student, "Look you dumb so and so, where in a dive! The AI is fouled up! You ought to be able to detect those sorts of things if you expect to survive as an IFR pilot! If this where real we'd be dead! Think you can get us back to the ariport Poindexter? Good, then do it, 'cause I need a bloody drink!"

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:46 pm

Finally someone who has a workable soultion.

Well done.

Cat

Benwa · Post by **Benwa** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 4:50 am

I wish I'll fly with you one day mcrit !

I could only imagine the TC inspector watching you filling the rum bottle !! LOL

Thanks for the good laugh

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:32 am

A bottle of rum???? What a bloody waste!!! Now, I've never really had a problem feathering one during training (in warm wx) for "demonstration" purposes only...and you'll notice, TC wont even let you actuallt feather a PT6 in flight...and the thing is stiil running! Anybody remember a certain DHC6 near YHM several centuries ago...and a tree in an otherwise clear field?
Back to Toronto Airways.....is Heather Sif...still "hot"? Gawd, I'm getting old!

Wasn't Me · Post by **Wasn't Me** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:10 pm

Doc

You are getting old I remember the DHC6 the guy in the left seat was a good friend it was a sad day. I do not beleive in feathering a good engine in flight but I comply with the rules so as not to piss off the DFTE's when I sign my name. Now for a test of true age.

Doc Do you remember the Aztec that hit Hydro wires at CYYZ on then called 05L. All the peolpe walked.

Corrected as requested.

Right Seat Captain · Post by **Right Seat Captain** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 9:44 pm

Wasn't Me:

I try not to correct people on here, but, are you sure the keys are in the right place on your keyboard?

[edited to correct my own bad grammar...oh the irony of it all]

Wasn't Me · Post by **Wasn't Me** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 4:22 am

Right Seat Captain

I haven't been useing a keyboard but I'm going to see about getting one.

Thanks for your feed back

just curious · Post by **just curious** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 7:01 am

Doc wrote: Anybody remember a certain DHC6 near YHM several centuries ago...and a tree in an otherwise clear field?
Back to Toronto Airways.....is Heather Sif...still "hot"? Gawd, I'm getting old!

A) Yeah
B) When I was 12, hell yes. As you may well recall Doc, "Beatles" haircuts were still in vogue at the time.
C) I suppose that means that we are both old. But then, having flown aircraft that were at least partially covered in cloth, that would be a given.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:12 pm

I'm SO old, that most of the places I fly to today didn't even have strips when I first flew into them. Now, I can't rent a plane unless there's spot for my walker!
But I dont remember the Aztec crash....could it be??? I'm NOT the oldest dude on this board????

Wasn't Me · Post by **Wasn't Me** » Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:00 pm

Doc

1972 we took out the hyro wires and walked away but i was a very young pilot. I just checked my log book November 22 about 9:30 pm the lights went out in Mississauga for a few hours.

Maybe your not the oldest dude.
And she is still hot in a classy kind of way.