INSTRUCTORS AND SPINS

[Colonel Sanders]

Last one to crash wins

With this crowd, that would be likely. Fortunately we will never find out for sure.

[Beefitarian]

... 'cause we're awesome pilots and the contest would just end after we became bored waiting for eliminations?

[Colonel Sanders]

More likely a 10 knot crosswind would come up and all flying would have to cease!

[Beefitarian]

Wait, who's in?

I have no doubt pie, shiny and even I can handle 10 knots at 90° granted I might need to over shoot a couple of those but I'm working on it. Maybe I should be allowed an F-86 being the noob.

[iflyforpie]

Any of you ever hear of that mechanic who was doing engine runs on an English Electric Lightning and the cables broke loose? He was solo in an open-cockpit Mach 2 interceptor with only a few hours of light aircraft time. He couldn't eject because the seat wasn't armed and he didn't have a flight suit. Took a couple tries, but he got it down in one piece.

[Shiny Side Up]

Any of you ever hear of that mechanic who was doing engine runs on an English Electric Lightning and the cables broke loose? He was solo in an open-cockpit Mach 2 interceptor with only a few hours of light aircraft time. He couldn't eject because the seat wasn't armed and he didn't have a flight suit. Took a couple tries, but he got it down in one piece.

Now you're the one getting the history incorrect.

You're probably thinking of this guy. Apparently 2 hours in a cub was enough to learn everything about flying. Either way, the people here deserve a picture of a Lighting since they're cool.

[Beefitarian]

There were a few recorded incidents. You're probably both right. There was also an American guy that was certified to taxi something and he accidently lifted off and then was too scared to land until they talked him down.

[iflyforpie]

Now you're the one getting the history incorrect.

Not likely. Got you again SSU!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYHdBQzIN-0

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=20807

But you are right, this thread definitely needed a Lightning picture... IMHO one of the coolest planes ever made.

[Shiny Side Up]

Not likely. Got you again SSU!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYHdBQzIN-0

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=20807

Ah, I bow to your internet-fu.

The lightning was soooo awesome it had stuff on top of the wings! Screw you conventional layout!

[Colonel Sanders]

Now that is a butt-ugly airplane!

He was solo in an open-cockpit Mach 2 interceptor with only a few hours of light aircraft time

Flying a jet - as long as nothing goes wrong - is really not that hard. The ailerons, elevator and throttle work pretty much as expected, and frankly you don't have to do much with the rudder pedals. Things just happen a little quicker.

Checking a piston-aircraft pilot out in a pure jet, the first thing you have to get used to is the larger radiuses of the turns, because of the much higher speeds. With the same G, the radius is actually a function of the square of the airspeed. So if you're travelling four times as fast as you're used to, your turn radius is now 16x as large - if you pull the same G. This isn't rocket science. It's first year university physics, actually.

Next thing a piston-aircraft pilot needs to do - after he flies an approach by the numbers - is to learn to control the airspeed on final. Up until this point, he has been flying a light aircraft with virtually no momentum, with plenty of drag and instant throttle response. Well, in a pure jet pretty well all of that is turned upside down, and it's common to see people over-control the throttle, with sometimes disastrous results if they simultaneously are low on N1, airspeed and altitude. It's not hard for people to program the jet to crash-land short of the runway. Not good.

With a long enough runway, precise airspeed control is not as crucial. However with a short runway, it is absolutely crucial because your kinetic energy is a function of the square of your airspeed.

So, if nothing goes wrong, you fly a big circuit, and you pad the airspeed to a landing to a 2+ mile-long runway, yeah, it's really not that hard. Several F-104 pilots have told me the Pitts is much harder to land than the -104, which after all has a nosewheel.

Remember, all aircraft have a wing that pushes air down, and an engine that pushes air back.

Still, if you're struggling with crosswinds, think twice about taking on new aircraft types, because you haven't mastered the one you're already flying.

[Beefitarian]

I wouldn't describe my cross wind landings as a "struggle" but I certainly am some practice away from mastering the mighty 172 today. Hopfully I can practice lots this year.

[iflyforpie]

I haven't had to deal with crosswinds for a while. Now that we have functioning wind socks at AA8 I'll have to practice.

[Shiny Side Up]

I'll have to practice.

Screw that, Lightnings are so awesome just looking at pictures of them is going to make you awesome. Even at crosswinds. Besides this thread needs more cowbell.

See so awesome they break the soundbarrier in an awesome manner.


Mounting missiles on your fuselage is also another sure sign of awesomeness!



Proof of that is here:



Pure awesome!

[Colonel Sanders]

. Norris doesn't often fly a fighter jet, but if he did, he would fly a Lightning, because he is the most interesting man in the world.

If MacGyver flew a fighter, it would be an ancient F-4 off a pylon, held together with duct tape.

[Shiny Side Up]

Bob Hoover is generally considered the greatest pilot of all time but that's because . Norris generally prefers to walk. Bob grows only a Mustash, in homage to .'s beard as a sign of respect.

. Norris's spin and spiral recovery is the same, he merely roundhouse kicks the airplane back to straight and level.

A single tear from . Norris applied to the skin of an airplane will be sufficient to keep the airplane de-iced indefinitely. Too bad he never cries.

[tractor747]

I don't know how true it is, but during the spin (autorotation) if you "let go" of the controls what happens next?

Does it get out of the spin or continue to tighten and this is of course when you are demonstrating spins up at 5000 feet or higher not in the circuit pattern where obviously the time won't be there.

I have heard about it, so just wanted to get more info from pilots/instructors that have done it or demonstrated.

thanks

[cgzro]

Depends on the aircraft.
In some aircraft yes pulling power and letting go of everything including rudder will stop the spin and put you in a spiral dive.

Infact the spiral dive is where most planes end up without other inputs anyway.

[AEROBAT]

A 172 is hard to keep in a spin in the utility catagory without pro spin input. The 150, if you hold pro spin input after 3 or 4 complete rotations, will require spin recovery but still recovers nicely.

[trey kule]

I don't know how true it is, but during the spin (autorotation) if you "let go" of the controls what happens next?

First of all, you are being taught spin recovery, which as it happens, requires you to get the plane into a spin first.
But, if this does happen later it may be the result of a bad C of G, a shift in the C of G, or maybe in a plane that is not certified for spins because of a bad characteristic. You are not going to be doing the spin entry intentionally.

So, lets look at the TC FTM...I hope it has not changed to much, but even if it has, I do not think you will find anywhere in it where is suggests "letting go" of the controls...That may work in a certain type or types of trainers, and I am quite aware that more than a few FTU's use it as a truism and somehow think it will apply to all planes and every situation....But get it out of your head..That is not something you want bouncing around in your aviatior brain...Hopefully you will never get into an unintenional spin, but if you do, letting go is not really something you want to spring to the surface of you mind.

If the FTM has not changed to require a check list for recovery , there are several definite recovery actions...Memorize them...Get them so well implanted in your head that you can recite them without hesitation. And then sit yourself on a chair and go through the motions until they are in your muscle memory... Costs you nothing but time. It will make spin training very simple, and you will have hopefully burned in your memory a procedure that you may never need in the rest of your career, but it will be there if needed.

[Colonel Sanders]

I would hesitate to give any advice to the spin experts
here, but in the early 1980's Gene Beggs and Eric Mueller
performed thousands of spins in many, many different
types of aircraft and developed the Beggs-Mueller spin
recovery technique.

Again, the experts on AvCan know more about spins
than say Eric Mueller - a former World Aerobatic Champion -
but a little google time might be worthwhile for some.