"career flight instructor"

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helinas
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"career flight instructor"

#1 Post by helinas » Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:30 pm

Just curious to see how many guys you know or guys on this forum are career flight instructors and love what they or you do?

curious


thanks guys

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#2 Post by thesun » Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:54 pm

Hello Hellinas, first time I post on this website.

For me the answer is quite clear :
yes I want to be a flight instructor for a career. But maybe I wont.
If I can find a school who is willing to pay me 80.000$ a year I would.
Anyway that s what all the career flight instructors with an ATPL and some experience in the industry (charter captain turbo prop jet or even piston) SHOULD earn.
Helinas I really enjoy to be a flight instructor. Never forget to demonstrate all the exercises for training purpose and for your own handling.
You can be a flight instructor teaching how to fly a good traffic patern (circuits) how to stay on the good glide path whatever the wind is and turbulence.
An other day you can show how to handle the icing and how to use the deice systems on your aircraft.
An other day you can demonstrate an emergency descent with oxygen.
You need a very good handling a very good knowledge and some different experience as a captain. You need to deal with some situations to be able to teach them.
The hardest is to demonstrate how to behave. Never T/O without the WandB or all the calculation done. Behave as a professional (don t need to look like, your students are not stupid only your boss will be impressed).
Be careful this job is not everyday easy and generaly harder than a non instructor job. And your responsabilities are tremendous. ALL the student need references and models.

Be paid as a professional (you can buy your house and feed your family).
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Career Instructor

#3 Post by shamrock104 » Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:21 am

Helinas,
which school did you choose in the end?
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#4 Post by helinas » Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:46 pm

I am having a bit of a hard time between Island Air down at YTZ or Peninsulair at YHM as that is where I did my most of my training. I like the instructor trainer there as he did my flight tests as well and a real pro.

I am leaning towards Peninsulair but I have to find out whether they hire their graduates or not.

any suggestions?
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#5 Post by mcrit » Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:54 pm

Hey Helinas:
I'd go with your gut on choosing the school. If you like your class 1, and trust the place, that is the most important thing.
As for the career instructor thing, if I could find an instructing job that paid enough I'd stick with it as a career.
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#6 Post by helinas » Sun Mar 04, 2007 9:30 pm

thanks mcrit :smt038
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#7 Post by Krashman » Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:43 am

Definately if instructors got paid what they should I would like to make a career out of it.... but it doesn't at alot of schools. There's some piece of mind knowing you'll be sleeping at home every night.

Is it bad if I get alot of personal satisfaction when one of my students do well on a flight test or a written exam. I'm still very happy for my students
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Career Flight Instructor

#8 Post by shamrock104 » Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:41 pm

Helinas,
who did you choose to go with in the end?
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#9 Post by youngflier » Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:12 pm

how can you love flight instructing when guys want to pay you 25 dollars an hour?
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#10 Post by Golden Flyer » Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:15 am

youngflier wrote:how can you love flight instructing when guys want to pay you 25 dollars an hour?
try 15
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#11 Post by Krashman » Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:05 am

15 an hour? where are you working... you should shop around there are alot of instructing postitions available these day and most places even if your a class 4 you should be making about 18 with a substantial raise once getting your class 3
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#12 Post by Shiny Side Up » Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:35 am

youngflier wrote:how can you love flight instructing when guys want to pay you 25 dollars an hour?
Because it still beats having to do real work.
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#13 Post by FlightInstructor? » Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:01 pm

I don't want to be an instructor for ever but I do want to experience as much of the industry as possible and flight instruction is part of the industry so.... I'm instructing
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#14 Post by Golden Flyer » Wed Mar 07, 2007 5:18 pm

Krashman wrote:15 an hour? where are you working... you should shop around there are alot of instructing postitions available these day and most places even if your a class 4 you should be making about 18 with a substantial raise once getting your class 3
I don't fly for a living but I know people who make that in Toronto. It's a sad story...
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#15 Post by Airtids » Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:57 pm

We get the best of both worlds here. We get all the good (and bad) that goes along with Instructing, but we also get to fly operationally, single, multi, wheels and floats. One thing's for sure- as much as I love instructing, I sure wouldn't still be doing it if it wasn't my own operation. Teaching is by far the hardest job in aviation. This patly explains why there are so few 'career' instructors around.
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#16 Post by Golden Flyer » Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:42 pm

Airtids wrote:We get the best of both worlds here. We get all the good (and bad) that goes along with Instructing, but we also get to fly operationally, single, multi, wheels and floats. One thing's for sure- as much as I love instructing, I sure wouldn't still be doing it if it wasn't my own operation. Teaching is by far the hardest job in aviation. This patly explains why there are so few 'career' instructors around.
You'd think the people who teach future pilots how to fly would be respected and receive one of the highest pay rates within the industry. When I first got into aviation I was surprised by all this. Ofcourse all pilots put their lives at risk, but instructors do so to a greater extent. Had a friend whose student accidentally pulled the mixture on takeoff.
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#17 Post by Luscombe » Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:17 pm

I went into instructing thinking that I just might become a career instructor. I really enjoyed teaching and some of the most interesting folks I have ever met were my students. I was home for dinner (most days) and didn't have to live out of a suitcase. I even managed to qualify for a mortgage on flight instructor pay.

I chose to move on because the idea that I would be paid 3 hours after putting in about 12 (on a good day), and basically being treated like crap by pretty well everyone else in the industry. If I could indeed make the same money as I do now, I think I would have stayed instructing. Somehow, career instructors are looked at as "those who can do, do... those who can't, teach... " I've heard it before. It's a lie as anyone who instructed can tell you that it is probably the hardest way to make a living, and you do have to be proficient at it in order to actually survive.

Basically, I loved instructing.... I just hated being a "flight instructor".
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#18 Post by bob sacamano » Sat Mar 10, 2007 8:36 am

Airtids wrote:Teaching is by far the hardest job in aviation. This patly explains why there are so few 'career' instructors around.
The reason why you have a few career instructors is because it's not geared to be a career job.

Do you offer benefits to your instructors?

Do they make enough money to live a comfortable life?

Can they pay back their student loans and still have a family?

These my friend are why you have a few career instructors and more career driving instructors.
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#19 Post by Airtids » Sat Mar 10, 2007 2:11 pm

bob sacamano wrote: The reason why you have a few career instructors is because it's not geared to be a career job.

Do you offer benefits to your instructors?

Do they make enough money to live a comfortable life?

Can they pay back their student loans and still have a family?

These my friend are why you have a few career instructors and more career driving instructors.
Bob, you're right, but let me put a different slant on it. It isn't that the job isn't geared to be a career job (there are quite a few career instructors out there who actually do quite well, mostly in the colleges that don't generally operate in the free-market economy as the smaller schools do) but that the very nature of the current supply/demand dynamic doesn't allow for it. The questions you forgot to ask are:

Do you have a clientele that will pay enough to be able to offer benefits to your instructors?

Does the competitive environment / market you operate in allow you to pay your employees what you want to be able to, not what the market dictates?

Will these things make your staff loyal enough to justify rewarding them, and are they really valuable enough to you (experience, knowledge, motivation) to warrant the reward?

I just get such a kick out of everyone blaming the schools for the poor status of the instructors. We are constrained by the same market forces everyone else is. Take a look around, the owners of small schools sure as hell ain't gettin' rich off the backs of their poor instructors. Most that I know are barely making enough to justify the investment they made, and the time and energy it takes to run the show day-to-day. Just ask anyone who's finally said 'enough', and thrown in the towel. :roll:
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Re: "career flight instructor"

#20 Post by marakii » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:24 am

helinas wrote:Just curious to see how many guys you know or guys on this forum are career flight instructors and love what they or you do?

curious


thanks guys

helinas


I know the original post is old but the subject is still valid,
If instructing paid decent or above normal wages would people stick to instructing on a permanent basis?

Home every night , fun flying but challenging as well.

You hear the negative schedules newbies are flying king airs and I wonder if it paid good wages would more instructors be permanent ?
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Re: "career flight instructor"

#21 Post by youhavecontrol » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:11 pm

It's interesting hearing the comments about instructing not paying all that much. I'm sure the times must have changed since the original post. Last year I made about 50k, which may not be much, but it's decent enough to live on, and the company I work with has good benefits. I'm home every night and my hours aren't all that crazy if I don't want them to be.

Sure, when you start as a measly Class 4, it can be rough at first, but it doesn't take long to upgrade and get a raise at a busy flight school.

I've been doing it for almost 4 years now and have paid off a good amount of student debt, plus been able to put away from a good vacation every year.

The only thing that makes me desire something new is the stress of my schedule , plus watching someone else fly an aircraft I'm in at a level of proficiency below ideal (yeah, they're students, but it does get tiring having to watch all the things you'd like to not see happen again and again and seeing the same mistake over and over while trying to treat the student, who doesn't know any better and hasn't seen the mistake as many times as you have, fairly.)
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Re: "career flight instructor"

#22 Post by maturepilot83 » Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:38 pm

marakii wrote: I know the original post is old but the subject is still valid,
If instructing paid decent or above normal wages would people stick to instructing on a permanent basis?

Home every night , fun flying but challenging as well.

You hear the negative schedules newbies are flying king airs and I wonder if it paid good wages would more instructors be permanent ?
I have been instructing for about 5 months now at a flight school in S. Ontario. It is by far the best job I've ever had. I don't joke around when I say I have fun everyday. Working with students of different walks of life with challenges of their own and getting them to the end of a license or rating is highly rewarding work. Unfortunately, it doesn't pay much! I wouldn't mind being a career instructor if it paid a liveable wage.
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Re:

#23 Post by Future_Sunwing_pilot » Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:02 pm

thesun wrote:Hello Hellinas, first time I post on this website.

For me the answer is quite clear :
yes I want to be a flight instructor for a career. But maybe I wont.
If I can find a school who is willing to pay me 80.000$ a year I would.
Anyway that s what all the career flight instructors with an ATPL and some experience in the industry (charter captain turbo prop jet or even piston) SHOULD earn.
Helinas I really enjoy to be a flight instructor. Never forget to demonstrate all the exercises for training purpose and for your own handling.
You can be a flight instructor teaching how to fly a good traffic patern (circuits) how to stay on the good glide path whatever the wind is and turbulence.
An other day you can show how to handle the icing and how to use the deice systems on your aircraft.
An other day you can demonstrate an emergency descent with oxygen.
You need a very good handling a very good knowledge and some different experience as a captain. You need to deal with some situations to be able to teach them.
The hardest is to demonstrate how to behave. Never T/O without the WandB or all the calculation done. Behave as a professional (don t need to look like, your students are not stupid only your boss will be impressed).
Be careful this job is not everyday easy and generaly harder than a non instructor job. And your responsabilities are tremendous. ALL the student need references and models.

Be paid as a professional (you can buy your house and feed your family).
A buddy of mine who was an instructor told me you could reach 80k a year as a Class I instructor
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Re: "career flight instructor"

#24 Post by Cat Driver » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:38 pm

Never T/O without the WandB or all the calculation done.
Really?

If I decide to go for a short flight in say a Cub with half a tank of fuel by myself and no baggage or cargo I have to do a full W&B ?

Why?
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Re: "career flight instructor"

#25 Post by digits_ » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:55 pm

Cat Driver wrote:
Never T/O without the WandB or all the calculation done.
Really?

If I decide to go for a short flight in say a Cub with half a tank of fuel by myself and no baggage or cargo I have to do a full W&B ?

Why?
He's not talking about that. He is talking about being an instructor. You should lead by example. For new students that does mean doing/having your students do a W&B.
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