Aviation industry short of pilots - Canada

flyinphil · Post by **flyinphil** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:22 am

Ignorance is bliss Jep. Just remember that.

When you grow up and actually take on the responsibilities of life ie: wife, kids, mortgage, cars, insurance, education, unemployment, sickness, divorce, taxes, bankruptcies etc, a higher than average income will become your friend. Don't beat it down.

Enjoy your blissful existence, reality is just around the corner.

Jeppesen · Post by **Jeppesen** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:23 pm

flyinphil wrote:Ignorance is bliss Jep. Just remember that.

When you grow up and actually take on the responsibilities of life ie: wife, kids, mortgage, cars, insurance, education, unemployment, sickness, divorce, taxes, bankruptcies etc, a higher than average income will become your friend. Don't beat it down.

Enjoy your blissful existence, reality is just around the corner.

The writer must earn money in order to be able to live and to write, but he must by no means live and write for the purpose of making money.

plhought · Post by **plhought** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:55 pm

The writer must earn money in order to be able to live and to write, but he must by no means live and write for the purpose of making money.

Ha ha ha ha...

Adam44 · Post by **Adam44** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:37 am

Hedley wrote:
"If you're young, and right wing, you have no heart. But if you're old, and left wing, you have no brains"

I thought it was "if you're old and left wing, you have no money."

5400AirportRdSouth · Post by **5400AirportRdSouth** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:57 pm

This thread is so funny, I posted a link to it on youtube.

BigB · Post by **BigB** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:54 pm

Wow. Interesting how a thread can take a tangent into economic ideology. Me thinks our young friend Jepp is still in the infatuation stage of aviation. Most of us were the same, at that early stage in our budding aviation careers. I can not fault Jepp for having strong idealistic views.

However Jeppesen, I would like to pose a few questions for you to ponder:

1) When you stated that you will always be willing to work for 80K/yr, was that net, or gross income? Was that indexed for the future? Is that taking into account (as stated in a previous post) your current lifestyle as a single person, or one with a family?

2) Taking into account your leftist economic and social stance, would it not make sense, for the better good of the pilot community, for you to pursue a different career?

3) If after spending a few years in this industry, and when finally faced with the job offer that will pay you more than 80K/yr, what will your response be? Will it be along the lines of, "Wow, 100K/yr. I'm sorry, but I believe that 80K will be fine. That's because it's already over the average Canadian income". It would honestly be interesting to fast forward, and see your response.

Yes, being a pilot is a great job. Congratulations on your acceptance into aviation college, I honestly mean that. Just don't sell yourself short. After the glitz has worn off a tad, and faced with the economic realities of supporting a family, it is a job (and a fun one at that).

Best of luck,

BigB

C-GGGQ · Post by **C-GGGQ** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:37 pm

BigB wrote: 3) If after spending a few years in this industry, and when finally faced with the job offer that will pay you more than 80K/yr, what will your response be? Will it be along the lines of, "Wow, 100K/yr. I'm sorry, but I believe that 80K will be fine. That's because it's already over the average Canadian income". It would honestly be interesting to fast forward, and see your response.

Well when he said that 80k was good enough i don't believe that he said it was optimal, of course anyone would take a raise everyone always wants more money, but can you comfortably live on 80-120k a year? sure, can i live a lot more comfortably on 200-300k damn strait. Now do i say work for chicken sh*t no, but refuse a job cause its "not as much as you would want" not early in the game anyways. I agree with you on everything else BigB

F/O Crunch · Post by **F/O Crunch** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:39 pm

Just fly and be happy Jepp! Whatever is said we wish you the best... Try not to look up to those who look down on you.

jamesinator · Post by **jamesinator** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:02 pm

Okay. I'd like to jump in here if I could. I am a 17 year old going to the confederation program in september, and I kind of think like Jeppesen in that I am determined to be a commercial pilot for a living eventually. What I would like to know is the paths that these 777 and 787 pilots took to get where they are now. Correct me if I'm wrong, but some of them are making quite a bit more than 120K/year. I'll suffer through all the BS it takes to get there, but I just want someone to explain to me what they would have to go through to get there, and the credentials they would have to have on their name

F/O Crunch · Post by **F/O Crunch** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:34 pm

Its a jungle out there! There are many ways through it, just keep cuttin' away at it

saucer_driver · Post by **saucer_driver** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:37 pm

It's official there is no pilot shortage in Canada....despite what aviation colleges, whom stay alive based on enrolment, may tell you...

Lies lies lies.......

Kelowna Pilot · Post by **Kelowna Pilot** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:23 pm

The 'pilot shortage' has been the mantra of the flying schools since... forever.

I guess they figure it works when it comes to bringing in new students.

JohnnyHotRocks · Post by **JohnnyHotRocks** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:15 am

There is a pilot shortage, but it is a shortage of EXPERIENCED Captains that can just jump in a corporate jet and take it half way across the world...

Kelowna Pilot · Post by **Kelowna Pilot** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:28 am

There is a difference between saying there is a 'pilot shortage' in general and saying there is a shortage of highly experienced, highly specialized pilots in select fields (such as your corporate example).

Your corporate Captain example probably probably represents less than 3 percents of all the pilots out there.

If there is a shortage in the world right now, it's of Airbus and Boeing TRI's and TRE's in the Europe and places like India. Those are extremely specialized positions.

For all those who want to know what a real labor shortage looks like from the eyes of an employee, let me give you an example based on the experience of a relative of mine.

Not even finished school, the employers put on a free banquet with a free bar and free everything for the upcoming graduates.

The starting salaries offered are reasonable and in the 50K mark.

The employers are very active, often aggressive, in trying to persuade the upcoming grads to work for them.

Basically, the employer has to sell himself to the employee, pointing out why the employee should come work for him and all the perks they have to offer.

That is what real 'shortage' looks like my friends.

dirtpoorflyr · Post by **dirtpoorflyr** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:53 am

[quo For all those who want to know what a real labor shortage looks like from the eyes of an employee, let me give you an example based on the experience of a relative of mine.

Not even finished school, the employers put on a free banquet with a free bar and free everything for the upcoming graduates.

The starting salaries offered are reasonable and in the 50K mark.

The employers are very active, often aggressive, in trying to persuade the upcoming grads to work for them.

Basically, the employer has to sell himself to the employee, pointing out why the employee should come work for him and all the perks they have to offer.

That is what real 'shortage' looks like my friends.te]
I couldn't agree more ! Maybe some day we'll get that kind of treatment......Sooner or later the industry employers will have to invest in their pilots . Other industries have discovered that the cost of training their employees is an investment in the future even from the beginning. Train them the way you want them. Employees are an asset not an expense.

I'm a class 4 instructor searching the job market at this time. I'm amazed at the response I've had to my resume..There is a shortage of instructors with the latest movement in the industry. This is great as wages have started to increase . Two years ago when I left the industry I was making $ 14.00/ flight hour, and had to literally beg for a job. Today I have had schools calling me and offers over the phone of $22.00 - $25.00 / flight hour + base of $100/ week depending on location. Still not great when you have a family and you figure how much you can fly in a week in November here in Ontario, but it's improving. Also to note a couple of neanderthal schools out there who want you to spend 50K at there school and work a year at the dock before you can fly with them, or others that don't pay for ferry flights.......Time to wake up boys...I didn't spend this kind of money to work for free.....single engine PIC is not that valuable....and as far as your dock......I prefer to stay current flying...and minimum wage won't pay for it. Attitude ? Yes , but I'm Going to take pride in what I do and maintain some self respect at the same time.

C-GGGQ · Post by **C-GGGQ** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 8:21 am

amen, as a class 4 who searched the job market for a while before heading the instructor route, i agree 100%

Kelowna Pilot · Post by **Kelowna Pilot** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:04 am

I couldn't agree more ! Maybe some day we'll get that kind of treatment......Sooner or later the industry employers will have to invest in their pilots . Other industries have discovered that the cost of training their employees is an investment in the future even from the beginning. Train them the way you want them. Employees are an asset not an expense.

That would be nice, but it's not going to happen probably, especially in the era of the Low Cost Carrier.

So long as aviation is perceived as being a "glory" job there will always be an ample supply of pilots out there who will do and spend whatever amount of money it takes to be a "pile-it".

Just look at the stuff that goes on in Europe where they spend outrageous sums of money buying type ratings and buying line training.

$22/hr is not bad for an instructor. If you could bill at that rate for the equivalent of 40 hours a week, it might be semi-okay. But as we also know that for most flight instructors, for every 2 to 3 hours they put in at the school, they only get paid in reality for one.

. ._ · Post by **. ._** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:09 am

I'm holding out for a pilot job that pays $45,000 a year. I have 250 hours, Comm Multi-IFR with a float rating. If it's in a city over a population of 300,000 it'll cost you more for COLA.

Anyone wanna hire ISTP? That's what I charge. pm me.

I don't need a flying job so bad that I'll starve.

If I get any pm's, then there is a shortage. Till then, I'll order pizza 7 days a week and fly for fun.

-istp

Kelowna Pilot · Post by **Kelowna Pilot** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:10 am

Attitude ? Yes , but I'm Going to take pride in what I do and maintain some self respect at the same time.

Good on you... don't be brow-beaten by owners and managers who want you to believe the false idea that having a "positive attitude" means being treated like slave labor and accepting it, even being happy about it.

pika · Post by **pika** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:20 am

I think we have quite a way to go before the shortage of all shortages is upon us. I was just made aware of a 757/767 contract paying $5000USD/month.