CPL Long Cross Country

Lommer · Post by **Lommer** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:39 pm

Hi all, every time the subject of the 300nm cross country comes up here, people recommend that the student takes photos at their destination, get their logbook signed by the tower/FBO, and make other efforts to document the trip.

I'm in a bit of a different situation. I've already done a whack of cross country flying, including 1 flight that was over 300nm (which I made no effort to document at the time, beyond the basic logbook entries). Has anyone applied for a CPL using a flight like this and encountered any difficulty? Any suggestions?

good_idea · Post by **good_idea** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:04 pm

When I filed for my commercial I had nothing other than the log book entry as well. Make sure your log book entry has a note for the 300nm trip. When I did do it however I took a photo of the GPS showing 300 nm from my base airport. Transport never asked for confirmation.

good_idea

Zapp Brannigan · Post by **Zapp Brannigan** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:08 pm

You don't need anything other than logbook entries, thats what a logbook is for. If your 300nm trip was after your private license, had 3 full stops other than your point of departure you're good to go as far as I see.

I have never heard of anyone needing anymore proof. Pictures and signatures would have less credibility than your logbook anyways. TC may ask for your logbook to be submitted though when you apply for the CPL.

lyncher · Post by **lyncher** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:11 pm

Zapp Brannigan wrote:You don't need anything other than logbook entries, thats what a logbook is for. If your 300nm trip was after your private license, had 3 full stops other than your point of departure you're good to go as far as I see.

I have never heard of anyone needing anymore proof. Pictures and signatures would have less credibility than your logbook anyways. TC may ask for your logbook to be submitted though when you apply for the CPL.

Umm I believe the signatures go in your logbook.....

C-GGGQ · Post by **C-GGGQ** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:12 pm

i had to submit my log, I got nailed on time, but not the cross country, had the three stops 300 miles just the basic entries

Zapp Brannigan · Post by **Zapp Brannigan** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:09 pm

lyncher wrote:
Zapp Brannigan wrote:You don't need anything other than logbook entries, thats what a logbook is for. If your 300nm trip was after your private license, had 3 full stops other than your point of departure you're good to go as far as I see.

I have never heard of anyone needing anymore proof. Pictures and signatures would have less credibility than your logbook anyways. TC may ask for your logbook to be submitted though when you apply for the CPL.
Umm I believe the signatures go in your logbook.....

nah, meant the signatures of the tower/fbo guys he was talking about. Our signature is the certification.

lyncher · Post by **lyncher** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:14 pm

they (the FBO or school or whatever) are supposed to sign the leg in your log book as well.....

I did mine a couple years ago though.....

C-GGGQ · Post by **C-GGGQ** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:27 pm

yes the school/ instructor would sign off on every page, but from what i understand (and have been told as well) people have told him that he should find someone at each stop on his Long X country to sign each leg of it to prove he actually went on it, which is unnecessary. I was told this too by people who didn't really seem to know, instructor said it was unnecessary and it was never questioned when i applied for my CPL

flyingaddict · Post by **flyingaddict** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:11 pm

I never needed anything other than my personal log book for TC to examine.

Why would you lie? The 300NM cross country was the highlight of my CPL training.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:53 pm

About that cross country....DO IT AT NIGHT!!!! Everybody I fly with is short on their night PIC when it comes time for an ATPL. You should do ALL you time building at night....believe me....this will pay off!

C-GGGQ · Post by **C-GGGQ** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:00 pm

thats a really good idea too bad i'm beyond that point already

Lommer · Post by **Lommer** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:46 am

As for the instructor/school signing it off, I did that trip as a private pilot in a private airplane, without the intention of using it for any training or licenses. Think the school will have any qualms about using it? Oh well, we'll see soon enough.

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:58 am

It doesn't matter what the school thinks - it's what the Authorized Person thinks that matters. If you find one that doesn't like it, shop around for another.

If it was done in a private plane, bring along the journey log as proof of the flights, in addition to your personal log.

Lommer · Post by **Lommer** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:59 am

Well the journey logs are on the other side of the country along with the plane, but the owner is pretty helpful so maybe I'll get him to fax a copy of the relevant page over just in case.

canpilot · Post by **canpilot** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:26 pm

Shi*((!

My mom threw my disposable camera out that contained the pics of my 300nm! Me thinks they are burried somewhere deep in the Vancouver Landfill..gotta start diggin!

Seriously tho! Never heard of having to document anything but in the logbook. One thing that has been suggested to me is to document the route of flight in the remarks section. I'm finishing my Cpl with about 350 PIC and a load of trips..I was told from the outset document routing. Thus, transport is apparently less likely to bring time(s) into question.

Eg. CZBB-YWL

Eg 2: CZBB- V349-CZML to CZBB. etc = best

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 4:17 am

canpilot wrote:One thing that has been suggested to me is to document the route of flight in the remarks section.

OUr school told us to put the "signatures" in the remarks section.

Don't forget lots of airports have those "guest books" or whatever it's called and you can 'sign in.'

You'll also have your flight plan that NavCan may or may not have on file(don't know how that works) but you'll have the paper(most schools need to see it before they sign you off to go out on a flight)

But yeah, never heard of anyone being turned down because they didn't have "proof" of being there in terms of pictures, signatures, momentos...

Log book is all you need.

lilfssister · Post by **lilfssister** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:03 am

cyyz wrote:You'll also have your flight plan that NavCan may or may not have on file(don't know how that works)

Our daily logs of "paperwork" (most is electronic these days) is required to be kept for 30 days. Then it goes in the round file (or recorded over in the case of electronic logs).
I think you'd have a hard time getting hold of it because there is a very short list of "agencies" to who we may release log data.

185_guy · Post by **185_guy** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 6:12 am

Whenever I did a x-country to a new place, i always tried to get the airport operator, or the flying club/school to stamp my log book. Maybe it was not needed but it seemed like a good idea at the time and it makes each trip a bit more memorable!! Make your logbook fun! Like mentioned in another thread, you never know who will be looking at it an 50 years!!

just curious · Post by **just curious** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:13 am

I wrote this bit fro someone who was about to send it in for an ATPL, but it can apply equally to a commercial applicant. Most people will never write another book aside from their log book. Why not make it interesting aside from the mandatory items? TC sees it a couple times in your life. Its your own damn book though.

The issue for TC, as far as I can tell, is: "Is this clown bullsh*tting me, or does he really have that kind of time?"

So, in order to reduce the possibility of suspicion:

Do you have paysheets or month-end summaries of your hours?

If your logbook has serial-numbered pages, do you have the log serial entered in the remarks?

Has your CP signed off your log?

Is there at least one hero-pilot picture of you sitting in your DHC-5/Metro/Be99 (Doc only )/Concorde, with you actually in flight?

Any cool stickers of places you actually went to?

If you do skeds, and list First Air 954/955 in your remarks column, do you have a copy of your schedule photocopied in your log ?(trust me, you won't remember those numbers 20 years from now, although I'm fairly clear on the sked numbers for Deer Lake, Pikangikum, and Tuktoyuktuk still )

If you did an IFR segment for the day, did you list the approach type?

If you attended a course, and you figure AC, WJ, or Cathay would be interested in it (ICP, Terps, CASO, USC Accident Investigation), why not put that in there?

Do you keep a running total of hours on type or configuration? (DHC-6: 11,324, Be99: 6207.3 Skiis: 4539.2 etc.), Insurance companies and Workopolis are always interested in that sort of crap anyway

If you do batch entries for the day (I'll do 8.9 in an average day), do you have the routing and number of landings in there?

When you get an ATPL, why not tape the commercial licence in your logbook at the spot in the book where you did your commercial ride?

Got a PPC card filled out and you don't need it, glue it in there too

At the end of the day, it is the only book most pilots will ever write, so if you had a hilarious story of an adventure on a flight, or a good pic from the day, or a good sticker from... (The Norseman Festival, the South Pole, CIAS Airshow performer, Sap-sucking '81, or William Tell, Maple Flag, Oshkosh) why not huck it in there? A couple words (the Green Boat, Old Dad's Rescue, The Plug-in Cord...) in the remarks column will help you recall the whole thing 30 years later!

If you are on the big iron, pa23 or better, why not use the Single Engine columns for remarks? Every pilot I've ever met had plenty to say, why not you?
TC looks at the book for three minutes and chucks it in a pile. Your grandkids will likely open it up to a random page and frame it. At least, I did that with my Dad's, Grandfather's, and Uncles logs. Why not be prepared for it?

Transport, for your (Private commercial ATPL, Chief Pilot, Ops Manager, ACP, DFTE) will wanna see it.

Your potential employers may want to see it.

Your grandkids will want to see it.

The Aviation Hall of Fame may want to see it.

Why not make it something to remember as opposed to a mandatory document for some clerk you will likely never meet?

Servisair · Post by **Servisair** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:33 am

correct me if im wrong. the PTR is what you send in to TC with your application for the license and the signatures from the trip legs would be in you personal log book. I think the signatures are just there for you to show the examiner who signs your papers before they are sent in. Just a thot