Question For Instructors.

Tango01 · Post by **Tango01** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 3:54 pm

Ever pulled the mixture on your students?

bobcat18 · Post by **bobcat18** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 4:17 pm

Why create an emergency to simulate one.

Did it once to prove that the prop probably wouldnt stop but did so with plenty of altitude and a good battery and starter.

I had an older instructor who told me. You dont need to bleed to practice first aid. I kind of took it to heart

chewsta · Post by **chewsta** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:04 pm

hz2p · Post by **hz2p** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 7:25 pm

Years ago, flying twins down in the USA, we'd get so bored, we'd reach down between the seats and flip the fuel selector for one of the engines off when the guy flying wasn't looking. It took a few seconds for the fuel to run out, so you'd be looking out the window when the engine quit and the guy flying would jump

I once had a student ask me how a Cessna would glide with the prop stopped, so I stopped it. I was overhead the airport, which was deserted, and was quite happy to deadstick it if it didn't restart. Most people probably don't do forced approaches well enough to do this, though.

I always loved unusual attitudes. I'd dial in full nose down trim and bump the attitude indicator bars up, so when the guy took control, he'd shove the nose down which was quite a lesson for him about not trusting attitude indicators, which can tumble as you well know.

Some time, children, I will tell you about 60 degrees of flaps in a buck-fifty

Right Seat Captain · Post by **Right Seat Captain** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 7:47 pm

bobcat18 wrote:Why create an emergency to simulate one.

AGREED!

I'm not sorry to say that I care more about my own ass than the learning opportunity for the student. What if something else goes wrong, now you have two problems, instead of one.

An old instructor once told me that when he used to instruct, they used to practise real engine failures. The planes had tandem seats (one behind another), and the fuel line went right between the instructor's feet in the second seat. There was also a fuel switch. So the instructor could shut off the fuel easily without the student's knowledge. Again, it would take a few minutes before the engine quit. After getting close to the ground the instructor would turn the fuel back on, and get the student to restart. This happened all the time, until one day, the instructor could not restart, and did not make it in the field. Needless to say, this practise no longer happened.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 7:54 pm

The same can be said for full feathering of an engine when training on twins.

Why create an emergency when one did not exist?

Cat

BuddyJay · Post by **BuddyJay** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 10:09 pm

When I was getting ready for my commercial ride a few years back, my instructor had me practicing diversions at about 500' AGL when he decided to sim a rough engine by leaning the mixture to the point where the engine was cutting in and out.
I immediately told him I see the point of his exercise but we'll do it with the mixture full in and limit the engine RPM's with throttle...
I lived to see another day... I still think to this day, what was that person thinking.
The point has been made above.. but to answer your question, I'm sure it's been done!

BJ

shimmydampner · Post by **shimmydampner** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 1:45 am

Had it done to me while doing my float rating by a very experienced float driver and instructor. On approach to landing, not a very big deal, just real eerie when that engine goes totally silent.

paul972 · Post by **paul972** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:24 am

Tango01 wrote:Ever pulled the mixture on your students?

Ever crashed into a tree to test the airbags in your car?

Nordo · Post by **Nordo** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:45 am

Ive never pulled it on a student. But I have pulled it on myself. I shut the engine down over the farm, pulled up the nose and stopped the prop from milling, and dead sticked it into the field. Ive done it a few times.

I dont believe making an emergency situation out of nothing is a good idea, but gliding an aircraft is not an emergency situation, no engine with no place to land is an emergency, or if the rudder fell off the back....that would be an emergency too....with or without the engine spinning. I suppose those with glider experience have a different take on this engine out matter.

An instructor pulled the mixture on me back durring my commercial days turned off the mags and handed me the key, I remember thinking to myself..'why is the prop still moving??' I was under the impression that if you had an engine failure, the engine would ciese to move. I learned that even though the prop is moving, you may still have an engine problem. The instructor who showed me this and many many other non-standard A/C tricks is one of the greatest avaitors of all time (even you would like him Cat and i bet he could teach even YOU somthing). Rumor has it he has over 25,000 hrs of teaching alone. He said back in his day that was how they simulated emergency situations and down wind failures..different day back then.

Again I would never pull the mixture on a student, but I have no problem dead sticking a plane into a field (or a glider).

I guess that makes me unsafe - just like Mavrick

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 11:52 am

Nordo :

I like and admire any pilot who is profficient and experienced, so yes I would probably like him.

None of ever quit learning from others, and all of us have screw ups sooner or later....

The important factor is learn from your mistakes and have an open mind, that and lots of luck when you f.ck up will eventually make you an old pilot.

Then you would give it all up to be young again.

Cat

Nordo · Post by **Nordo** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 1:24 pm

Cat - I agree 100%. I just like giving you a hard time.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 4:37 pm

I know.

So don't stop.

Cat

The Dude · Post by **The Dude** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 5:05 pm

Nordo, You're everyone's problem. That's because every time you go up in the air, you're unsafe. I don't like you because you're dangerous.

Nordo · Post by **Nordo** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 6:30 pm

Im flying with a ghost.

The Dude · Post by **The Dude** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 7:12 pm

You can be my wing man anytime.

Right Seat Captain · Post by **Right Seat Captain** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 7:15 pm

The Dude · Post by **The Dude** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 7:30 pm

Right Seat Captain wrote:

I know, the lines from Top Gun sound even gayer when you read them.

upn@m · Post by **upn@m** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 8:42 pm

how does it feel when you type them...?

Shiny Side Up · Post by **Shiny Side Up** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 10:13 pm

About a week or so ago I had one of my renters pull the mixture out to kill the engine on shutdown, and when we went to start it up again, no go. So I go out to see figuring someone's not following his checklist again and low and behold we find a broken mixture cable. Fortunately the only time it would do that is when the mixture is pulled to ICO, and the only time you normally do that is when you shutdown. If I had done that now to demonstrate to a student, at the very least I'd have ended up with a long way to push an airplane back to the hangar - not to mention blocking off the runway while I did it. At the worst, it might be very tough explaining what happened to a TSB investigator. Lastly, students are edgy enough, I don't need to freak them out anymore than most of them are.

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