Tailwheel Checkout In Ontario?

This forum has been developed to discuss flight instruction/University and College programs.

Moderators: ahramin, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, Right Seat Captain, lilfssister, North Shore

Message
Author
CNU8
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:29 pm

Tailwheel Checkout In Ontario?

#1 Post by CNU8 » Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:35 pm

So this is my first post, I fly out of Markham airport now but am trying to find a place to get my taildragger checkout this summer. Yesterday I called St. Thomas Flight Center to see what they charged for dual on their fleet canuck, and the person who anwsered the phone told me that there was no such thing as a taildragger checkout. Now I am confused, I only have time on a 172 and I know (have been told) you actually have to use the foot rests when flying a tailwheel plane, but I thought you needed some kind of a checkout to fly taildraggers. Or is it the same as going from a 172 to a warrior?


Can anybody reccomend where a good place would be to get one if there is such a thing as a taildragger checkout?
---------- ADS -----------

Hedley
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 10430
Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 6:40 am
Location: CYSH
Contact:

Re: Tailwheel Checkout In Ontario?

#2 Post by Hedley » Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:38 pm

Please don't confuse the real world (laws of physics) with the paper world. As a young pilot, one of the most important lessons you need to learn is that the two are only very loosely-coupled.

In Canada, legally, there is no such thing as a tailwheel endorsement on your pilot licence. However, since 1991, there has been such a thing in the the USA. You cross an invisible line, or wait a while, and the rules change. Got it?

Now for the laws of physics. If you attempt to fly a tailwheel aircraft the first time by yourself, you will surely wreck it, because it is unstable when the tires are on the pavement, because the center of mass is behind the main gear. It's akin to balancing a broom on your finger - you can do it, but you may need a little practice first.

A a young pilot, I might suggest that you develop the utmost respect for the laws of physics, because they will happily kill you if you give them an opportunity to.

Anyways, what tailwheel aircraft would you like to fly?

Generally the insurance companies are the gate-keepiers of this sort of thing. Your broker will specify in painful detail, what kind of instruction you will require, and from whom, when you buy yourself a tailwheel aircraft, or a retractable-gear aircraft, or a twin-engine aircraft, etc.

I do an awful lot of this sort of thing. Nobody except me will instruct on tailwheel homebuilts/antiques, it seems - esp multi-engine. Know any Piaggio Royal Gull instructors?

Lots of people like to talk a big game, but as the saying goes, few people are up for the moment.
---------- ADS -----------

User avatar
mcrit
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1975
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 9:01 pm

Re: Tailwheel Checkout In Ontario?

#3 Post by mcrit » Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:52 pm

Try Brampton Flying Club. They should be able to get you going on the Cub. If that does not work try Future Air at Holland Landing.

A tail dragger checkout is really just a check on type. As far as TC is concerned a tail dragger is just another airplane, so there is no rating for it. Having said that, you may find a tail dragger is much different than what you are used to flying a 172.
---------- ADS -----------
____________________________________
I'm just two girls short of a threesome.

CNU8
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:29 pm

Re: Tailwheel Checkout In Ontario?

#4 Post by CNU8 » Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:59 pm

yeah Im not expecting it to be anything like the 172
---------- ADS -----------

joco
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 212
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:16 pm
Location: Guelph

Re: Tailwheel Checkout In Ontario?

#5 Post by joco » Thu Apr 08, 2010 4:51 pm

CNU8 wrote:yeah Im not expecting it to be anything like the 172
Give Spectrum in Milton/Burlington a call 905-336-4010 and ask for Denis Simo. He will explain how things go there and help you. They have a Super Cub me thinks... Hope that helps.
---------- ADS -----------
joco

User avatar
Adam Oke
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1225
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:30 am
Location: London, Ontario

Re: Tailwheel Checkout In Ontario?

#6 Post by Adam Oke » Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:37 pm

Get in touch with avcanada member l_reason. Shoot him a PM. He will teach you how to fly a tail-dragger right in a beautiful Luscombe. I highly recommend the guy and he's located in the London area. I wouldn't be where I am right now without having the opportunity to fly his plane getting some quality instruction!
---------- ADS -----------
--Air to Ground Chemical Transfer Technician turned 3 Bar Switch Flicker and Flap Operator--

l_reason
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 429
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:37 am

Re: Tailwheel Checkout In Ontario?

#7 Post by l_reason » Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:36 am

Send me a pm if you want to do some flying. OR get in touch with Hedley.

Adam, keep the tires out of the weeds and take care.
---------- ADS -----------

rgarvis
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:20 am

Re: Tailwheel Checkout In Ontario?

#8 Post by rgarvis » Thu May 06, 2010 4:31 pm

I am also looking for a taildragger checkout. I'm in Quebec, but willing to travel. I tried Brampton, but got no serious response. I'd have contacted I_reason but there appears to be no contact information in his profile. Anyone have a good contact for this type of training? I'll need it asap. You can reach me at richieg_2000@yahoo.com
---------- ADS -----------

SuperchargedRS
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1292
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:30 am
Location: the stars playground

Re: Tailwheel Checkout In Ontario?

#9 Post by SuperchargedRS » Thu May 06, 2010 6:47 pm

I'm surprised that there is no tail wheel endorsement in Canada, in this situation it looks like the insurance companies are actually the heroes here lol for without their limitations I'm sure a few Canadian would end up turning a few planes into pretzels.
---------- ADS -----------

Hedley
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 10430
Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 6:40 am
Location: CYSH
Contact:

Re: Tailwheel Checkout In Ontario?

#10 Post by Hedley » Thu May 06, 2010 7:27 pm

Go fly I_reason's Luscombe - he has plenty of satisfied tailwheel customers, because he's a pretty darned good instructor - guess who signed off his instructor rating? :wink:

If I_reason is too busy, give me a holler. My day job is insanely busy these days, but we can try to fit something in. I'm just southwest of Ottawa - I live near Bandy Bartholomew's home town:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartholomew_Bandy

PS Please don't encourage TCA to make more regulations. We should encourage pilots to use good judgement.

Our website: www.pittspecials.com
---------- ADS -----------

l_reason
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 429
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:37 am

Re: Tailwheel Checkout In Ontario?

#11 Post by l_reason » Thu May 06, 2010 7:54 pm

Just send me a PM and I'll get back to you. I'm not around for the next few weeks, but I should have some after that. I'm not planning to do a great deal of tail wheel training, I'm not in it for the money or the log book time. I enjoy spending a few hours helping someone learn some new skills. Skills that will help them be a safer pilot in every plane they fly.
---------- ADS -----------

Hedley
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 10430
Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 6:40 am
Location: CYSH
Contact:

Re: Tailwheel Checkout In Ontario?

#12 Post by Hedley » Thu May 06, 2010 8:03 pm

I_reason: bad news! My company got sold by the mega-billion dollar sound company! No more speakers and amplifiers at manufacturer's cost :cry:
---------- ADS -----------

l_reason
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 429
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:37 am

Re: Tailwheel Checkout In Ontario?

#13 Post by l_reason » Thu May 06, 2010 8:07 pm

:(

L_reason
---------- ADS -----------

AEROBAT
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 554
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:27 am

Re: Tailwheel Checkout In Ontario?

#14 Post by AEROBAT » Thu May 06, 2010 10:10 pm

SuperchargedRS wrote:I'm surprised that there is no tail wheel endorsement in Canada, in this situation it looks like the insurance companies are actually the heroes here lol for without their limitations I'm sure a few Canadian would end up turning a few planes into pretzels.
I for one am glad there is not a tailwheel endorsement. We have too many regs as it is. It is a very good idea to be checked out in any different type of plane but in my opinion we tend to be a bit overblown when it comes to flying with a tailwheel. Sure there are planes that will overwhelm a low time pilot but they tend to be homebuilts usually and even some homebuilts, the RV's, are a delight to fly and very well behaved.
---------- ADS -----------

Hedley
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 10430
Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 6:40 am
Location: CYSH
Contact:

Re: Tailwheel Checkout In Ontario?

#15 Post by Hedley » Fri May 07, 2010 6:49 am

We don't have an aerobatic endorsement in Canada, either, and frankly it would be pretty much worthless, because you might be the ace of the base in a Citabria or Decathlon, but you would be completely out of water in say a Yak-52.

Our hypothetical pilot, transitioning from a Decathlon to a Yak-52 would be well advised to get some type-specific spin training.

Again, good judgement on the part of the pilot is worth many, many tons of rulebooks.

You could have an aerobatic endorsement for each different type of aerobatic airplane - think ICAS SAC airshow card - but that's kind of overkill, IMHO. If you're going to do that, you might as well require a type rating to fly each of a C120/140/150/152/170/172/175/177/180/182/185 straight and level.
---------- ADS -----------

User avatar
iflyforpie
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 7485
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:25 pm
Location: The Misty Mountains...

Re: Tailwheel Checkout In Ontario?

#16 Post by iflyforpie » Fri May 07, 2010 8:29 am

The only thing a tailwheel specifically adds to the challenge of flying the aircraft is when it is on the ground under certain conditions. The worst you are going to do with a tailwheel aircraft is depart the maneuvering surface, bend some metal, and maybe get a few cuts and bruises. If you have mishandled the plane so badly that you cartwheel, the configuration of the gear probably has little to do with your ensuing fate.
---------- ADS -----------
Geez did I say that....? Or just think it....?

Hedley
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 10430
Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 6:40 am
Location: CYSH
Contact:

Re: Tailwheel Checkout In Ontario?

#17 Post by Hedley » Fri May 07, 2010 10:06 am

The only thing a tailwheel specifically adds to the challenge of flying the aircraft is when it is on the ground under certain conditions
... and those "certain conditions" are that it is moving? :wink:

You are correct, though, that the safest place for a taildragger is in the sky. I always tell my students to take off with lots of gas, and if they don't get a perfect approach/flare/rollout to overshoot, because they are likely behind the aircraft, which means that they are a passenger, which is not good.

If a new taildragger pilot has any doubts in his mind about how any approach / flare / rollout is going, he should immediately add full power and get the tires in the air and get set up to try again, and to see if he can get a "good one".

This ought to be a non-issue because he has lots of gas, right?

It is an interesting psychological question as to why pilots unnecessarily keep pushing a bad situation, which often results in a horrible end, without some enormous skill or luck being injected into the situation at some point.
---------- ADS -----------

User avatar
iflyforpie
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 7485
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:25 pm
Location: The Misty Mountains...

Re: Tailwheel Checkout In Ontario?

#18 Post by iflyforpie » Fri May 07, 2010 10:56 am

Hedley wrote:
... and those "certain conditions" are that it is moving? :wink:
If your locking spring is weak and the winds are cross or quartering, it can be a challenge just staying still... :wink:
---------- ADS -----------
Geez did I say that....? Or just think it....?

CNU8
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:29 pm

Re: Tailwheel Checkout In Ontario?

#19 Post by CNU8 » Fri May 07, 2010 4:44 pm

Thanks for the advice; I was talking to a guy who owns a plane at the airport I fly out of and has over 10 000 hours, he told me to get a few hours in something like a champ before heading into the Luscombe. This summer it would be great to do some flying with I_reason if he has some time.
---------- ADS -----------

Hedley
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 10430
Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 6:40 am
Location: CYSH
Contact:

Re: Tailwheel Checkout In Ontario?

#20 Post by Hedley » Sat May 08, 2010 6:54 am

Sure, if you had a cub/champ/chief/citabria/decathlon available, it wouldn't hurt to get an hour or two in it before you jump into the Luscombe.

But don't believe the horror stories you hear about the Luscombe - or any other airplane. It's a certified single, and you don't have to be Chuck Yeager to fly it.

Lots of people here have flown with I_reason, and every single one really appreciated the improvement in their stick & rudder skills.

A few years back, I_reason took my kid - who was maybe 14 at the time - up in his Luscombe, and the first time landing it - from the right seat - he had no problem.

A Luscombe is NOT a fire-breathing dragon that eats pilots for breakfast. If I had a nickle for every time I heard that before I flew a new (to me) type, I would be a rich man :wink:
---------- ADS -----------

Soupy
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:42 am

Re: Tailwheel Checkout In Ontario?

#21 Post by Soupy » Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:35 pm

I just began flying tailwheel aircraft myself, I went through the Brampton flight centre on their Super Cub, its a good plane, I had excellent instruction there, and now I am looking really just to fly some different types and build some hours. Here are some of the websites for the different places I found.

http://www.bramptonflightcentre.com/
http://www.futureair.ca/
http://www.spectrumairways.com/
http://www.learntofly.on.ca/index.htm

Hope that helps.

:)
---------- ADS -----------

fleet16b
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1099
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:49 am
Location: aerodrome of democracy

Re: Tailwheel Checkout In Ontario?

#22 Post by fleet16b » Sun Apr 03, 2011 1:45 am

Starting last summer, 3Point Aviator has been operating out of Guelph Airpark.
They are doing excellent taildragger checkouts and rentals.
Their rates are fantastic and beat out anyone in Ontario.
Glenn is a really great guy , give him a call.
---------- ADS -----------
...isn't he the best pilot you've ever seen?....Yeah he is ....except when I'm shaving.........

CNU8
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:29 pm

Re: Tailwheel Checkout In Ontario?

#23 Post by CNU8 » Sat Apr 16, 2011 6:21 pm

Thak you SO much fleet16b, I have been flying a Citabria a little bit, and did get a couple flights in the Canuck at St. Thomas; but Three Point looks perfect! I've always wanted to fly a J3. I'm going to see my brother in about a week (U of G) so I'll have to check it out.
---------- ADS -----------

KK7
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 856
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:41 am

Re: Tailwheel Checkout In Ontario?

#24 Post by KK7 » Sat Apr 16, 2011 6:34 pm

FYI
The Rockcliffe Flying Club in Ottawa at the aviation museum will be starting to do tail wheel checkouts and aerobatics training in a Decathlon. They just got the plane, they are just sorting out some paperwork before it is officially online.
---------- ADS -----------

Soupy
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:42 am

Re: Tailwheel Checkout In Ontario?

#25 Post by Soupy » Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:10 pm

KK7 wrote:FYI
The Rockcliffe Flying Club in Ottawa at the aviation museum will be starting to do tail wheel checkouts and aerobatics training in a Decathlon. They just got the plane, they are just sorting out some paperwork before it is officially online.
I am also quite excited about that, however, I believe it is a super Decathlon, I could be wrong. Last I heard they would have it up and running in may some time. I know that there there was talk about doing floats and skis on it in the distant future.
---------- ADS -----------

Post Reply

Return to “Flight Training”