Do you need a radio licence or not?

[meow]

Here is the question: Do you need to have your radio licence when you are flying solo... I have been told that it isnot necessary to have one if you're flying from an airport with ATF.. also if you own your NORDO aircraft...
But i remember when i started flying i had to get one before my solo flight and it's part of you licence that makes you legal to act as a PIC???
So in what case you don't need to apply or carry onboard a radio licence?
Thanx in advance.

[Icebound]

According to the AIP 5.1

a person may operate radio apparatus in the aeronautical service only where the person holds a Restricted Operator Certificate with Aeronautical Qualification, issued byIndustry Canada.

The Radio regulations state:

A Radiotelephone Operator's Restricted Certificate (Aeronautical) is required by the operator of radiotelephone equipment on board aircraft

It would be pointless to require the certificate if you are NORDO or RONLY, I would think... Even if transmit-equipped, you are not breaking any regulation if you filed NORDO (or RONLY) and did not "operate the equipment"... ie: if you did not transmit.... but you might have trouble convincing an inspector that you never intended to use equipment which existed in your airplane.

Student or not-student does not enter the equation. If there is a transmitter, and you are the one who in in control of the equipment, you have to have the certificate before you can legally transmit.

[Shtinky]

Here is the question: Do you need to have your radio licence when you are flying solo... I have been told that it isnot necessary to have one if you're flying from an airport with ATF.. also if you own your NORDO aircraft...

Hey meow that's a good question. If you're flying from an airport that is air traffic controlled you definitely need a radio and of course a radiotelephone operator's certificate. If you fly from an ATF aerodrome the regulations don't require you to have a radio onboard. If there's no radio onboard then you don't need that certificate. Some freelance instructor living way up north in an isolated part of Canada can teach at his own private strip. His student who is just about to go on his first solo flight doesn't require the radio certificate. What is stipulated by law is that the student needs a valid medical and student pilot permit. meow I've answered to the best of my knowledge. If there's anyone out there who knows something else I would appreciate your input.

[Snagmaster E]

If you're flying from an airport that is air traffic controlled you definitely need a radio....

Sure about that?

So if I own a NORDO a/c then I can't go into a control zone? You might want to look into that a little bit.

[shitdisturber]

You can go into a control zone Nordo, only with prior permission from the agency. If it's a busy control zone, figure the odds on getting in.

[Right Seat Captain]

Shitdisturber is correct.

And you only need a Restricted Radiotelophone Operators Certificate (Radio Licence) to transmit on aeronautical frequencies. If you have no radio in your aircraft, you don't need a licence, just like if you don't fly an airplane, you don't need an airplane licence.

However what you may be thinking of, is some years ago, the radio licence was included on the Private Licence. You used to not have a separate certificate for the radio, only your private licene (or higher) included the radio priviledges, hence the past requirement for a licence. However now radio's are Industry Canada's, and flying licences are Transport Canada's, completely separate.

[Wilbur]

Icebound, you would not have to convince an inspector that you did not intend to use a radio in your airplane. He has to establish that you did use it.

[Cat Driver]

The radio license thing is really an interesting subject.

I have never been asked to produce on that I can recall, but lets suppose I lose the piece of paper that I have now that has Restricted Radiotelephone Operators Certificate as its name and produced my old Airline Transport Pilot License with the green stripe on it , would that suffice as meeting the regulation? The license has of course been changed in format to the new computer generated thngy, but on the back of my origional ATPL you will find my radio license stamped there by the DOT.

What think you guys?

Cat

[Benwa]

I think as soon as they read . . on the piece of paper, you're toast. They'll make some sort of new regulation just to piss you off.

Seriously I think you'd be ok.

[Cat Driver]

The issue of course is not all that important, but just for the hell of it I would like to show it in lieu of the regular license....

...sadly I shall probably never get the chance because I don't do that much fliing here anymore.

Just to show how out of the loop I am, is the radio license one of the documents that is on the list of must produce on demand of the Gestapo?

I'm getting to uninterested to look it up.

Cat

[Cat Driver]

Hey Benwa, I got to thinking about your tongue in cheek comment.

" I think as soon as they read . . on the piece of paper, you're toast. They'll make some sort of new regulation just to piss you off. "

The truth of the matter is I would be the last SOB that any TC Enforcement Ramper would give a hard time to.

By now they would be very, very careful in how they conduct their duties when they read my name, you can bet on it.

Cat

[Right Seat Captain]

The only time I've heard of someone having to produce the radio licence was to US customs. I knew a pilot who was flying commercially to Australia (as a passenger on an airline). They had to pass through Hawii, and clear customs. The gentleman in question had brought his handheld aviation radio with him, since he was planning to take part in some flying activities in Australia. The US Customs agent asked if the guy had a licence to operate this radio (probably hoping to catch him on it). The gentleman sais "well yes I do!' and pulled his radio licence out of his back pocket. The customs agent's face grew a disapointed look, and asked if it was indeed the required licence to operate this radio, because he didn't even know himself.

[Shtinky]

Sure about that? So if I own a NORDO a/c then I can't go into a control zone? You might want to look into that a little bit.

meow was wondering if you need a radiotelephone operators certificate in order to do your first solo flight. I work at a regional airport which has an ATC unit. Therefore before any student attempts the first solo flight we get them to do the test for their radio certificate. However the requirements (by law) specify that in order for a student pilot permit to be issued he/she needs to provide 3 things:

1. Birth Certificate, baptism certifcate or anything else to prove their name, nationality and date of birth
2. Proof that they've written and passed the PSTAR
3. Valid medical

Nowhere does it say that they need a radio licence. This radio licence is issued to a pre-solo student just because it makes perfect sense and makes it a lot easier to work in controlled airspace. I guess technically a student can refuse to use the radio, make prior arrangements with the tower and receive all clearances by way of light signals.

[Wasn't Me]

I think maybe I'm missing the point. A radio licence is required by the person who is going to operate the radio in the aircraft. A student pilot permit is required to fly the airplane. If you plan to fly the airplane and use the radio, you as the radio operator need a radio licence (aviation use) not boat e.t.c.

In the past the aircraft had to have a station licence but that has been changed in the last few years - no longer required.

If you fly a Nordo airplane you can fly it anywhere including a control Zone without a radio licence. That's because your not using a radio. Ronly aircraft for those mature enough to remember need a radio licence held by the pilot not the airplane.

Any of you who have been ramped will remember that TC asked for a radio licence for the pilot.

[shitdisturber]

In order for a student to go solo in an aircraft, they technically don't need a radio licence if it's a Nordo aircraft. As soon as you put that magic box in the plane however, you must have the radio licence.

[ready2move]

I got my Private in 99 started Commercial in 2000 at a different club and thats when i got my radio license.

The club I worked at, talked to transport about it because we had old members without, we were told that they are required but TC dosn't enforce, Industry Canada is suposed to.

[Right Seat Captain]

R2M brings up a good point. TC has nothing to do with the radio licences, it's Industry Canada's Spectrum Office. I've dealt with them, specidically to becaome an 'examiner' for the radio licences, and my experience with them is that they have no clue what they are doing.

When I originally got my 'examiner' status, they didn't really care who I was, only that I had a licence number. There was no check of my knowledge or anything. Just got my radio licence number and sent me a letter in the mail to say I could issue radio licences.

When I required a copy of the application form, they told me they didn't have a copy and I'd have to go see another examiner in the region. I did, and he was missing one too, so we contacted them again. It took them a week to find a copy in Vancouver (we were in Ottawa, the HQ).

They lost their database of who was an examiner, so I sent in an application one day, and they thought I wasn't an examiner. It ended by them just reissuing my status as an examiner.

As an examiner, I don't really have much in terms of guidelines of exams or questions. There are some recommended questions, but it's really up to me to decide whether someone is knowledgeable enough to get a licence. As a standard procedure, we issue an exam that requires 60% to pass, but that's just our own rules, not industry canada's.

[Icebound]

R2M brings up a good point. TC has nothing to do with the radio licences, it's Industry Canada's Spectrum Office. I've dealt with them, ....snip... and my experience with them is that they have no clue what they are doing.
...snip...

I believe it.

From the end of World War II up until 1965, the relevant government services were populated by a technically savvy generation who evolved with the technology and understood the operations. Regulations evolved for a reason.

Somewhere in the fifties, sixties, the next generation were trained by the old masters. Still largely savvy, this 2nd generation was hampered by an exponential increase in everything.... the size of their own departments, huge computerization projects, costs. An increasing amount of effort was redirected to administration, and less emphasis on training.

By the time this era was ending (1994), a large portion of the population had been hired precisely because they could spell BYTE, RAM and UNIX. This would become the core of the 3rd generation.

Then came 1994.

Virtually overnight, the remains of the somewhat-savvy 2nd generation disappeared. Huge buy-outs were offerred to entice their departure, so that the government could point to its smaller workforce and its cost-cutting initiatives... The taxpayers were pleased, but the 3rd generation had almost completely lost its mentors.

By 1997, a lot of "corporate knowledge" from the previous 40 years had disappeared.

Since then, only a very few retained a good knowledge of the operation, and those are looking to get out as soon as possible. No longer is anyone aware of the historical reasons for a regulation or procedure.... or whether those reasons were still valid or not...or how it should be modified... or what priority should be assigned to enforcement of it.

So I have no doubt at all that: "they have no clue what they are doing" is very correct. But the taxpayers are pleased, the books are balanced, so does anybody really care?

[Cat Driver]

" So I have no doubt at all that: "they have no clue what they are doing" is very correct. But the taxpayers are pleased, the books are balanced, so does anybody really care? "

Probably not because with this new age regulation comes the new age generation that has been educated to accept the rules and regulations and not question the validity of same.

May I add that the final nail in the coffin for aviation was driven by the last Director General Civil Aviation with his filling of the upper ranks with ass kissing polititians who were more than willing to trade morals for personal expediency and protection of their jobs. Using the simple method of the good old boys club that circles the wagons at any hint that one of their own has their nuts in the vice because of immoral management on their part. Your present DGCA is the perfect example of immoral management honed to a very sharp edge.

That has been a winning combination for some time now and will continue until one day you all wake up and decide you would be better off under a despot such as Robert Mugabe in Zimbabwe, remember him? One of Chretien's buddies with the fair election process?

Canada is sadly going down the drain because of ignorance on the part of the general population.

Cat

[Icebound]

Canada is sadly going down the drain because of ignorance on the part of the general population.

Cat

The average Canadian hears the words "lower taxes", and while his drool is still dripping into the beer, the government decimates the Professional public service. When the new version proves to be Political, inept, and corrupt, the same Canadian becomes conviced that only Privatization is the answer.

After a few years, he receives a fraction of the service at the same overall cost and figures he has made a great deal.


...