University Degree vs College Aviation Diploma

[BTyyj]

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[metal]

What happens if you get into a disabling accident at some point in the next 40 years? End up getting some sort of illness that renders your medical null and void? Bye bye job.

[BTyyj]

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[appilot]

I think Metal was being sincere and raising a good point. Losing your Cat 1 means no more commercial flying and no more paycheck. And the circumstances for losing it aren't always "extremely rare". It's not a bad idea to know you have a way to support yourself if flying can no longer.
And to answer your question from before, you can get a diploma in 2 years, a business admin. degree in 3 FULL (12mo) years, or in 4 regular school years (8mo each)

[BTyyj]

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[sepia]

If you want to be a pilot train to be a pilot. A business degree won't be worth the paper it's printed on while you're chucking bags into the back of a caravan somewhere in the James Bay basin. If you do lose your medical 20 years down the road, no employer is going to hire you into a "business" job with a degree you haven't used in 20 years. Hell most current graduates have a hard enough time finding a job.

Look at the quality of education too. While you're studying about macro economics or ethics people who are going to specialized schools are only learning about aviation. Guess who comes out knowing more at the end. Look how long different courses take, how quickly do you want to be done? How much do you want to spend? These are all pretty important questions to ask. You'll find there really is no one "best route". Different people have success with different schools or different training units and then try and preach their route as the best.

The two youngest people in my Air Canada ground school were graduates of the Sault College program. Infact the younger guy was nearly 2 decades junior to the older people hired in my class. Does that mean Sault College is the best? A snapshot of that class certainly might indicate that. Another person who started 2 weeks earlier might have the same thing but with confederation college students instead. So you can see how people will try and use specific cases to argue their case as the one and only reality.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

[sepia]

If you want to be a pilot train to be a pilot. A business degree won't be worth the paper it's printed on while you're chucking bags into the back of a caravan somewhere in the James Bay basin. If you do lose your medical 20 years down the road, no employer is going to hire you into a "business" job with a degree you haven't used in 20 years. Hell most current graduates have a hard enough time finding a job.

Look at the quality of education too. While you're studying about macro economics or ethics people who are going to specialized schools are only learning about aviation. Guess who comes out knowing more at the end. Look how long different courses take, how quickly do you want to be done? How much do you want to spend? These are all pretty important questions to ask. You'll find there really is no one "best route". Different people have success with different schools or different training units and then try and preach their route as the best.

The two youngest people in my Air Canada ground school were graduates of the Sault College program. Infact the younger guy was nearly 2 decades junior to the older people hired in my class. Does that mean Sault College is the best? A snapshot of that class certainly might indicate that. Another person who started 2 weeks earlier might have the same thing but with confederation college students instead. So you can see how people will try and use specific cases to argue their case as the one and only reality.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

[BTyyj]

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[loopa]

I think Metal was being sincere and raising a good point. Losing your Cat 1 means no more commercial flying and no more paycheck. And the circumstances for losing it aren't always "extremely rare". It's not a bad idea to know you have a way to support yourself if flying can no longer.
And to answer your question from before, you can get a diploma in 2 years, a business admin. degree in 3 FULL (12mo) years, or in 4 regular school years (8mo each)

Not to be rude or anything, but can you, or anyone for that matter explain to me how having a degree, and not using that education for 20 years will serve beneficial to you when you go and knock doors to work as a businessman for a company? Why should they hire you when they can hire a 30 year old with experience in the field, and probably knows a heck of a lot more than you do about the job (recent education)?

Perhaps I'm missing a point that you guys all see. But I don't think a degree is useful after not using it towards it's destined career for 20 years. How many of you Business Admin students actually remember squat about accounting and economics? Chances are if you understood economics you wouldn't get into flying... supply and demand = lesson 101 (joke )

I'm not speaking out of spite, I finished my degree in sound engineering last month because I really want to do sound engineering for live bands/recordings etc one day. It's a nice studio/on the road job if you work a 3 week on 1 week off schedule like I do, and it's good money.

While I agree with having a back-up plan, I don't necessarily think that the degree will serve any special purpose. See the deck of cards you're dealt when you fly is that you need to keep a valid medical. While every effort should be made to maintain it, unexpected things do occur. I know people who have recovered from the worst and regained cat 1 status. I know the other side of the coin as well. But then again, that's the aviation career for you. Very much like how as a surgeon you may have a few patients dying under your duty. But again, that's the deck of cards you're dealt. Who's to say that the death of a patient won't lead to psychological issues which causes you to leave that career? So should a surgeon have a back up plan aside from the 10 years he spent in school?

My 2 cents

At the end of the day, as pilot's we are very divided on which way is correct. Listen to all the advice, and make your OWN decision. Not just on this topic, but on almost every topic that you come across in this industry.

[MultiSister]

Hey

I know a guy who hires for Jazz, and he says that they do indeed hire right out of programs, but they don't like to do that. But it is possible. You have to be top of your class.

I have done the University program, and the not, and honestly I prefer the way where you aren't in a university programs. It felt like they were robbing me of my money, and they instructors didn't care. I switched out of it, and am finishing my diploma and ratings else ware.

[BTyyj]

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[TheCasualMint]

I'd say do what you want. Your whole life does not need to be 100% about aviation. I'm at UWO in the CAM program that is heavily discussed, but I love it. I originally applied to Western for their BMOS in finance and admin, but found it a tad too boring. I contemplated between Ivey (their "elite" business school) and the CAM program, deciding what career path I'd take. I choose flying, without ever being in a C172 (or DA40 for that matter), and absolutely fell in love. I'm no fool to think this is the "best" option to becoming an airline pilot (if that's your end goal). I like it for the experience. Yeah, it's more expensive, and some may look at it as a "waste of time", but think about the contacts you meet, the friends, the Richmond Row (downtown London), the campus, etc. University is a GREAT life experience, and I wouldn't trade it for anything. Plus London has a good crowd of ladies.

I'll be like most people, finishing with my CPL Multi/IFR, and will enter the same job market as someone who only did flight training. I find the mentality university gives you is worth more than your undergraduate degree. Sure you can go on to become an accountant or engineer, but university can teach you how to think (time management, deal with stress and pressure, logical problem solving, etc.). There are probably a bunch of people who are against uni's cause of the multiple choice exams and whatnot, but you need to weigh in the non-aviation aspects. I decided to become a pilot when i was 18. You have two more years than I did. Keep in mind there are other things in life besides fast tracking to the airline.

[mintyfresh]

Instead of looking for a degree in business, or math or whatever; look for a degree/education that can aid you in your aviation pursuit. Take some meteorology classes or get a degree in meteorology. If you're going to be flying through the weather, why not learn a bit more about it.

Just a suggestion.

[ToFlyIsDivine]

Seneca - $40k top 2-4 pilots from the program will get into Jazz with 250 hours
Confed - same deal, don't know about costs but same top 2-4 pilots will get into Jazz
Western - $60k - no pilots getting in directly yet.
waterloo - geography degree with flight

Seneca's degree program geared towards aeronautics engineering, with this program you can finish it up and go straight to a masters in aviation engineering
Confed not familiar
Western's degree program is geared towards aviation management - airlines, airports and consulting firms

Depends what you want to do, if you are a smart individual who is highly disciplined then go Seneca, the program is intense and rewarding. If you are an individual who is interested in a degree and want to get a taste of university life and get your pilot's license then go to Western.

Western students are not taken straight into Jazz because our program is not as structured as Seneca's and until we get that done, Jazz won't be taking us. On another note, the Western's program brings in alot of Jazz VPs and Executives to do talks and seminars so if you want to get into the management side of airlines perhaps later on in life, it would be a good choice.

I'm from Western so hence more info on Western but there have been quite a number of individual especially in the past several years that have gone from our Western program straight into Cathay's Cadet Pilot Program. (which will save you a heck of a lot of time in the long run...) just in 2010 there were three from Western's CAM program who worked at Jazz for 2-4 years then got accepted into the cadet program.

Just another option.

Let me know if you have any questions, I'm not only from Western but I'm also in Jazz now.

Cheers

A

[Hedley]

This thread is a lot like pushing hard negative G after drinking pop.

Both make me taste vomit.

[BTyyj]

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[Jerry Lee]

This is an interesting thread for me.
I'm also looking for flight training with accademic instruction in Canada. Well, I'll try to settle in Canada, but of course, I will also convert the licences to JAA

In these past days I gave some glances in aviation college and university.
I am interested in Seneca, Moncton Flight College, Coastal Pacific and Confederation.
After flight training I would become a flight instructor or do some bush flying, then move to a regional carrier...

I know that in Canada, to become a major carrier's pilot a 4 year degree is not mandatory, an 2 year college diploma is already enaough, but what would you suggest?
What would you suggest to an International student?
Ah, I don't really love mathematic...

Just for your information, I'm attending accounting school, where I study not only accounting, but also finance, banking, marketing, and a bit of informatic (VB.net).

Many thanks in advance!

[Hedley]

I know I'm the lone voice in the wilderness, but ...

I find it simply bizarre that people go to University to learn to fly airplanes. I still have trouble believing that any accredited, respectable institution could offer such a degree program with a straight face.

Would you go to University to get a degree in welding? Or driving a large truck, or bulldozer, or operating a crane? Of course not. However, they are all very valuable skills.

Don't misunderstand me - I an NOT anti-university, or anti-degree - I'm a Queen's Engineer, class of 1986. Had a great time, learned lots of stuff. But not one single thing about airplanes.

Going to University and getting a degree is orthogonal (can I use that word in this crowd?) to aviation. If you want to do it, great! If not, it won't stop you from becoming a fine pilot.

But I am aghast when I see people enrolling in post-secondary education, in the hopes of making some fat pig in HR somewhere happy. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Take the post-secondary education that interests you - not anyone else. Or not, if you don't want to.

If you want to learn a trade, go to a trade school. And that's where you should learn to fly - at some vocational school. And the size of the trade school really doesn't matter: it can have one or 100 instructor and aircraft, because you personally can only use one, at any one time.

I just don't understand why people are always trying to complicate things, and mash two things together that have nothing to do with each other.

[Cat Driver]

If you can read and write and have a basic grasp of math you can be successful as a pilot.

[Hedley]

You really don't have to be very literate to be a pilot. If you know the
alphabet - so you can find airports in the CFS and CAP - and read a few
numbers off an approach plate, you'll do ok.