When renting an aircraft what is most important to you?

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When renting an aircraft what is most important to you?

Poll ended at Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:09 am

Price
17
40%
New aircraft, glass cockpit, IFR equipped
2
5%
New aircraft, steam driven, non IFR
4
9%
The ability to take the aircraft away overnight
15
35%
Booking times
3
7%
Block hour rentals
2
5%
 
Total votes: 43

skidoo
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When renting an aircraft what is most important to you?

Post by skidoo »

I'm looking at buying an aircraft to put up for rental. Please could you help me answer a few questions. Please feel free to comment with any additional points. Thanks for taking the time to complete this survey.
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Re: When renting an aircraft what is most important to you?

Post by photofly »

Maintenance by someone trustworthy and with a good reputation.
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Post by Beefitarian »

+ Location, condition, how difficult or easy it is to deal with the rental people.
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cdnpilot77
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Re: When renting an aircraft what is most important to you?

Post by cdnpilot77 »

Not having FTU currency rules
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Re: When renting an aircraft what is most important to you?

Post by Expat »

I may not be the usual renter, but in my case, it would be nice to take the plane when I go to Canada, and keep it for a few days, and pay for daily fees, as well as flight hours.
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Re: When renting an aircraft what is most important to you?

Post by Expat »

Go for it, skidoo. I thought about the same thing, but I am away now, and can't do it. There is definitely a market for something better than the FTUs.
Go for a four seater, for the broader appeal. The expensive IFR stack is not needed, as renters will probably all fly VFR anyway. A check out, as well as night check out should be included.
The time is good to buy a plane now, as the prices are depressed, due to the high CDN dollar.
In addition, on-line booking is almost a must, in this day and age.
First thing you know, you will have a fleet! :smt040
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Re: When renting an aircraft what is most important to you?

Post by iflyforpie »

Most important:

1) That I did the maintenance on it.
2) That I don't need a checkout to fly it.
3) That the most I have to pay is fuel and maintenance reserve.

:smt040 :smt040 :smt040 :smt040
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Re: When renting an aircraft what is most important to you?

Post by LousyFisherman »

Overnight and maintenance.
Also, am I allowed to land it on grass?
Any limits on where I can fly it?

All of the above are why I am in a partnership,
however, I rent a 172 occasionally.
LF
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Re: When renting an aircraft what is most important to you?

Post by burhead1 »

-Age doesn't matter but overall condition does
-Decent rate
-On line booking would be nice for both the renter and you, would save people fighting saying they had booked at the same time.
-The check out rules (ie having to have flown type within 30 days, some allow 60 if you over 200 hrs) Using there rules you could fly DAY all month, then decide to do a night flight 35 days after your last night and will require a checkout to do so.


Have a look at Borden flying club. They have a nice setup. You can book online, you can call ahead to the hanger, enter a code on the phone and it will turn on the heater. Not sure what a system like that would cost??
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Re: When renting an aircraft what is most important to you?

Post by Shiny Side Up »

skidoo wrote:I'm looking at buying an aircraft to put up for rental. Please could you help me answer a few questions. Please feel free to comment with any additional points. Thanks for taking the time to complete this survey.
If I may ask, what is your goal with renting an airplane out?
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Re: When renting an aircraft what is most important to you?

Post by skidoo »

If I may ask, what is your goal with renting an airplane out?
Shiny Side --- just an idea I was bouncing around to offset some of my ownership costs.
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Re: When renting an aircraft what is most important to you?

Post by fish4life »

I would make the next step in your research the insurance costs, allowing "non-current" pilots to rent the plane may drive up the insurance rates as I'm fairly sure this is why the FTU's have the restrictions in place.
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Re: When renting an aircraft what is most important to you?

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

cdnpilot77 wrote:Not having FTU currency rules

My experience has been that it is often the case that the renter pilots that complain the most about the requirement to maintain currency are the ones most in need of it...

I also think that for many, if not the majority of renter pilots, the maxim "treat it like a rental" is the operating philosophy in use......

I personally would never rent out my own airplane and I do not think it is the best way to reduce operating costs as the extra wear and tear and increased maintainance cost make it hard to break even. IMO the most cost effective way to own an aircraft is a 4 person group in a simple fixed gear 4 place single. All fixed costs (ie tiedown, insurance maintainance etc) are split 4 ways but in practice availability will still be pretty good. Since everyone has an ownership stake, there is an incentive to look after the aircraft.
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Re: When renting an aircraft what is most important to you?

Post by cdnpilot77 »

Big Pistons Forever wrote:
cdnpilot77 wrote:Not having FTU currency rules

My experience has been that it is often the case that the renter pilots that complain the most about the requirement to maintain currency are the ones most in need of it...
Was that a shot over the bow?
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Re: When renting an aircraft what is most important to you?

Post by burhead1 »

Shiny Side Up wrote:
skidoo wrote:I'm looking at buying an aircraft to put up for rental. Please could you help me answer a few questions. Please feel free to comment with any additional points. Thanks for taking the time to complete this survey.
If I may ask, what is your goal with renting an airplane out?
Shhh don't tell him, we were about to get a deal LOL
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Re: When renting an aircraft what is most important to you?

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

cdnpilot77 wrote:
Big Pistons Forever wrote:
cdnpilot77 wrote:Not having FTU currency rules

My experience has been that it is often the case that the renter pilots that complain the most about the requirement to maintain currency are the ones most in need of it...
Was that a shot over the bow?
No, it was a general statement of what I believe and was not aimed at yourself or any other particular poster.
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Re: When renting an aircraft what is most important to you?

Post by cdnpilot77 »

Ok, just checkin...I can see how that might be the case for a casual renter with a ppl, but hopefully a professional pilot wouldn't cause this concern. I would definitly be very selective of who I checked out in the airplane though!
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Re: When renting an aircraft what is most important to you?

Post by winds_in_flight_wtf »

The color / noise it makes . If I can't pull the " look at me shit" I really am not interested ... :smt040
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Re: When renting an aircraft what is most important to you?

Post by Shiny Side Up »

skidoo wrote:
If I may ask, what is your goal with renting an airplane out?
Shiny Side --- just an idea I was bouncing around to offset some of my ownership costs.
If that's the case, I wouldn't reccomend it. A partnership is a better idea. The troubles of renting aren't worth it unless you can do volume, and even then I debate on whether its worth while.
but hopefully a professional pilot wouldn't cause this concern.
Having done litterally hundreds of renter check outs with people ranging from fresh ppl holders to guys with enough type ratings to fill a book and tens of thousands of hours, I can tell you their credentials really mean nothing when it comes to how they are going to fly and treat a rental plane.
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Re: When renting an aircraft what is most important to you?

Post by 200hr Wonder »

The problem with renting is there is not a heck of a lot of profit margin. The ONLY way FTUs are able to stay in business is instructor premiums. You pay $45/hr for an instructor and he gets $20, well the $25 keeps the lights on and what is left after that is what the owner gets to take home. Rentals really make virtually NO money, even less if a careless renter cooks an engine or breaks something. That is why you don't see Budget Plane Rentals on the field, just no money in it. Renting is offered as a convenience to trusted customers more than anything and guys working on ratings and what not that need the time.

You do see fractional ownership a lot so that if you are careless and ding the plane, cook an engine you get to pay for it. But these are non-profit private relationships to again vet potential customers.
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Re: When renting an aircraft what is most important to you?

Post by Shiny Side Up »

Rentals really make virtually NO money,
The only reason we still do it is because we make money on it. If skidoo's plan was to start a rental operation, this would be possible if done right, his location really being the prime thing that would govern profit. I know I'm the odd man out, but I've never understood why aviation alone amongst private enterprises chooses to operate on such a poor business plan in general. There for some reason is a big impetus to keep prices down at the behest of the customer despite the fact that the market will sustain a higher price. Either way, not really the point of this thread, and I've beaten on that drum enough around here. Carry on.
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Re: When renting an aircraft what is most important to you?

Post by MichaelP »

Rentals really make virtually NO money
I agree.
I reckon the cost of flying in the Lower Mainland needs to rise $20 - $25 an hour for anyone to recover the cost of initial purchase, maintenance, and ultimate replacement of an aircraft.

We rent our aircraft out at the absolute minimum we can charge without losing excessive amounts of money.
A simple problem with a transponder can wipe out all 'profit' for the past ten or twenty hours of rental...

I remember one outfit here removing their transponders during the winter...

You get what you pay for and here in Canada you can find the crappiest aeroplanes in the World. Old radios, corrosion, poor maintenance, but cheap!

We compete with the USA, but we cannot compete with the USA.
They have lower costs all around while being a population of pilots with higher motivation is seems..

I do not know what the answer is... We are all getting poorer as time goes by and whereas the cost of living continues to rise the cost of flying and the residual money that we make is not.
There has been no pay rise for most people involved in this business for the past 15 years.

Some renters seem to be the sort of people who would take food from a starving person and money out of the beggar's cup.
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Last edited by MichaelP on Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: When renting an aircraft what is most important to you?

Post by trey kule »

Was that a shot over the bow?
Probably. In my opinion, currency is a critical issue. As far as "professional" pilots, like SSU, I have checked out many many pilots over the years for a group insurance program..The type of license has very little bearing on the ability of the pilot for simple renals. In fact, it almost seems to be an inverse. The pilots with 1000 hours as FO's in a turbine who want to rent to get the hours for their "Ehs!" sometimes have terrible basic flying skills and believe because they are pros and flying a medium weight machine, a simple plane like a bonanza is almost beneath them. Some really terrible pilots, and impossible to correct their bad habits as they know everything. On the other hand I have seen some farmers who have had their A/c stowed away all winter and come spring they are on the books for a week a two ahead, attending seminars to catch up on the latest reg changes, and look at a currency check as a way to make certain their skills are properly evaluated and brought up to speed.Who would you rather rent to?

And yes, this is a shot across the bow. Check in your attitude at the hangar door, and let someone else determine if you really are as good as you think....that is what professional pilots do. they understand the importance of currency.

End of myoff topic rant.
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Post by Beefitarian »

I know I need some nice tight rules. That way when I'm pushing the envelope so to speak I'm not really pushing the envelope. You wan't me to fly every 60 or 90 days and I wan't to be allowed to be a week late etc.

If there is no currency requirement there's sometimes a good chance I'm getting busy and not realizing just how long it's been. Sudenly it's been much too long and I'm not current at all. There's too much life out there getting in the way occasionally. That or worse, I can't afford to fly often enough to stay current.
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Re: When renting an aircraft what is most important to you?

Post by MichaelP »

We have a sixty day rule too but "Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men".
In other words nothing is set in stone.
So I would not ask a pilot who I know has recency in aircraft elsewhere to do a full checkout or even a few circuits if I know that person is competent.

On the other hand I have every respect for a pilot who has the attitude to want to learn and to ensure his/her and the passenger's safety by being current. There's always something to learn even from a Class IV.

It used to grate me when every six months I would have to have a recheck in a club aircraft paying dual for a Class IV... One day I can fly the aeroplane and the next I couldn't.
But that place has so many rules they can't fly in the winter and their students have to migrate to schools that don't mind wind and rain.

I flew a club aircraft in Thailand, 3 months and you need a recheck. I picked a new instructor there and we had some fun... It was a beneficial flight.
Having checked out in the Cessna 150 I was current enough to be asked to please fly in the Extra 300L as the owner hadn't flown it for nine months...

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