Flight Training Plan Question

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FenderManDan
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Flight Training Plan Question

Post by FenderManDan »

I recently bought a "Stick and Rudder" book and really enjoy what the author has to say even though it seems very dramatic sometimes. I am still a novice student, but the author very much makes sense to me in the way he is explaining the "art of flying" as he describes it.

I am getting confused now why the FTU has a stall, spin and range and endurance training in their lesson plan before the student can grasp and learn a good manoeuvring skills take off and landings? Stall and spin accidents seem to happen near the ground and no matter what you describe as a recovery procedure there is nothing useful that can be done in the training planes if you spin 50-500 ft AGL.

I am thinking, I am pretty good at a normal regime flying, but let's assume we hit a bad turbulence and my instructor (tall person) whacks his head into the cockpit ceiling and get knocked out cold. If I currently had a land a plane I would be capable to make a very nice 10ft deep crater. So what gives?

I might be very wrong here due to the lack of knowledge, just trying to make sense out of it.

Cheers

Dan
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KK7
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Re: Flight Training Plan Question

Post by KK7 »

The series of lessons - Range and Endurance, Slow Flight, Stall and Spin - are sequenced as such to introduce you to exercises at slower and slower speeds. Although I agree that the Range and Endurance lesson might be better placed later in the training when flying to/from the practice area solo or navigation exercises become the focus, but the other lessons do go a long way in teaching basic stick and rudder skills. When you land an airplane you will find yourself approaching these flight regimes and it is very important to recognize and prevent entering these flight regimes before you end up stalling the airplane on final.

Contrary to what it may seem, the purpose of these exercises in the early stages are not to recover from a stall / spin, but to recognize approaching these flight regimes and knowing what to do to stop it from getting any worse. Unfortunately the training manual does put a lot of emphasis on the recovery once entered. This is an excellent and required skill to have, but in the very early stages of training the focus should be on prevention and avoidance.

In single pilot airplanes there is always a risk of something happening to the pilot, but knowing how to land the airplane does little when you spiral dive turning onto base or slowing the aircraft too much and stalling on final.


Edited for spelling and grammar.
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Last edited by KK7 on Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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C-GGGQ
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Re: Flight Training Plan Question

Post by C-GGGQ »

+1
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D_Thissen
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Re: Flight Training Plan Question

Post by D_Thissen »

x2.. You learn Slow flight to recognize the symptoms and prevent the stall, you learn stall recovery incase you didnt realize you were in slow flight and to prevent a possible spin, you learn spin recovery incase you missed all the other warnings.
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SuperchargedRS
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Re: Flight Training Plan Question

Post by SuperchargedRS »

On a side note, anyone else do a BUNCH of low passes before teaching actual wheels down landings?
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Re: Flight Training Plan Question

Post by C-GGGQ »

no, not normally, but I was on a strict training plan from my college as an instructor so I basically did what the plan said to do next, no real leeway with the lessons. (unless overshoots count cause he wasn't gonna make it :) I kid...mostly)
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Re: Flight Training Plan Question

Post by Dagwood »

+1 to KK7.
Students tend to place too much importance on the approach and landing. They want to skip ahead and do the "important stuff" without a firm grasp on the basics. When a student of mine had trouble with the approach, flare, and landing, the best remedy would be to go practice some more slow flight. Unable to fly slow flight well usually means one is going to have trouble with landing.
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Shiny Side Up
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Re: Flight Training Plan Question

Post by Shiny Side Up »

I recently bought a "Stick and Rudder" book and really enjoy what the author has to say even though it seems very dramatic sometimes. I am still a novice student, but the author very much makes sense to me in the way he is explaining the "art of flying" as he describes it.

I am getting confused now why the FTU has a stall, spin and range and endurance training in their lesson plan before the student can grasp and learn a good manoeuvring skills take off and landings?
I don't mean to say, but did you notice in Stick and Rudder how he gets into talking about landing last?
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straightpilot
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Re: Flight Training Plan Question

Post by straightpilot »

You cannot land an aircraft until you can precisely control
it in continuously decreasing slow flight with unbelievable
precision - minus zero, plus one foot vertically, +/- 5 feet
laterally and +/- 5 degrees of yaw.

People don't really have problems landing. They have problems
flying precisely. No other maneuver requires that much precision,
not even a takeoff, where the prop slipstream is blowing over
the rudder and elevator and making them effective, which isn't
the case for landing.

Steep turns, for example, are +/- 100 feet. That isn't going to
cut it for a landing.
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Re: Flight Training Plan Question

Post by C-GGGQ »

I don't think I've heard it put better
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FenderManDan
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Re: Flight Training Plan Question

Post by FenderManDan »

Shiny Side Up wrote: I don't mean to say, but did you notice in Stick and Rudder how he gets into talking about landing last?
:D AFFIRMATIVE. I am still reading the book and finding a lot of things that I thought I knew, that I don't know.

Also I am glad about the ladies/lads here that are giving a good feedback. My misconception is based on the story I heard long ago from the WWII pilot and his flight training. To make the story short his instructors, Spain war veterans told him how to take off, fly, drop bombs and land without mentioning anything about the slow flight. Fun story indeed, he still lived until he was 83.

Cheers

Dan
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Colonel Sanders
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Re: Flight Training Plan Question

Post by Colonel Sanders »

without mentioning anything about the slow flight
Sigh. One of the important lessons of slow flight is adverse yaw.

Basically, on the back side of the power curve, ailerons don't behave nicely. When you use them, they produce noticeable drag when they go down.

Let's look at a left turn in slow flight. You roll the yoke left, which raises the left aileron, and lowers the right aileron into the high pressure area below the wing, and pulls back on the right wing, with that marvellous leverage of the wing.

So, you try to turn left in slow flight, and the nose goes right. This is annoying, it isn't what you want, and hence is known as "adverse yaw".

Why would you care about such obscure trivia? Recently I was giving dual to a licenced pilot, and as we took off, the nose went left (surprise) and instead of applying right rudder, he rotated the yoke to the right, just like 30 years (primacy) of driving a car had taught him to. Unfortunately this dropped the left aileron into the high pressure below the wing, and it pulled back on the left wing, making the problem worse, so he rolled the yoke MORE to the right, making the problem worse.

I think you can see where this is going.

On the "front side" of the power curve (ie faster than speed for endurance) think of ailerons as being primary for directional control, with rudders being secondary (ie step on the ball).

But on the "back side" of the power curve (ie slower than speed for endurance) think of rudders as being primary for directional control. Use the ailerons to keep the wings level.

Bottom line: any idiot can fly fast, and often does. But it takes a real expert to safely and precisely fly an aircraft slowly.



When you can fly an airplane like that, you are truly an expert.
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just curious
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Re: Flight Training Plan Question

Post by just curious »

Teaching someone to land without teaching the variables that can change a smooth landing into painful death is not that hard. As long as they are only going to land the same airplane at the same place with the same wind weather and weight.

Throughout even the 50 or so hours that someone is spending on the fundamentals, nothing stays the same. takeoff and landing are the two segments of flying that people get killed at with regularity. Why not have them master those variables first?

In the large aircraft world, one of the more painful discoveries of late is that really experienced crews have gained system mastery over complex aircraft at the expense of their hands-on flying skills. So now, upset recovery trainng is in the cards for large aircraft pilots to regain them.

This is your chance to beat them to that opportunity.
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