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"Street to Right Seat"/MPL/Ab initio Flight Training

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HM123

Post subject: "Street to Right Seat"/MPL/Ab initio Flight Training

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:39 am

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Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:32 am
Posts: 8

I am interested to learn more about "Street to Right Seat"/MPL/Ab initio flight training. I have found some information about Cathay Pacific doing such training but it is based Australia/Hong Kong. Does anyone know of such ab initio programs for Canadians based in Canada or the US?

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Big Pistons Forever

Post subject: Re: "Street to Right Seat"/MPL/Ab initio Flight Training

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:17 am

Rank 11

Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 3:17 am
Posts: 3071
Location: West Coast

HM123 wrote:

Short answer is No. North American airlines want flying experience for their new hires. The average Jazz/Westjet/AirCanada/AirTransat/SunWing/CanJet/AirNorth/FirstAir new hire will have 3000 to 7000 hrs of flight experience. There are lots of threads on Avcanada about career progression in Canada that will give you an idea of how things work.

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HM123

Post subject: Re: "Street to Right Seat"/MPL/Ab initio Flight Training

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:02 am

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Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:32 am
Posts: 8

Are there any ab initio programs open to Canadians in Europe that anyone knows of?

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photofly

Post subject: Re: "Street to Right Seat"/MPL/Ab initio Flight Training

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:24 am

Rank (9)

Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:47 am
Posts: 1450

Interestingly, Transport Canada holds itself out as a leader in the design of MPL training.
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/s ... u-2278.htm

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moocow

Post subject: Re: "Street to Right Seat"/MPL/Ab initio Flight Training

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:47 am

Rank 7

Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:36 am
Posts: 617

HM123 wrote:

Are there any ab initio programs open to Canadians in Europe that anyone knows of?

Unless you got the right to work & live in UK, then no. Even if you do, you still have to front money for BA's Future Pilot program. CX iCadet is not free since they tag on something call "Forgiveable Loan" for your flight training which you have to work off. Some posters on PPRUNE pointed out (rightly or wrongly) that this will be taxed as income in HKG.

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Colonel Sanders

Post subject: Re: "Street to Right Seat"/MPL/Ab initio Flight Training

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 3:27 am

Rank 11

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:17 am
Posts: 3973
Location: Over Macho Grande

Quote:

North American airlines want flying experience for their new hires

+1

Despite what many people might think, breadth of experience is not a negative for a pilot. I can't imagine that you could find a single person who would argue that a broadly experienced pilot would perform worse in an emergency situation. Examples abound.

Mastering your trade is not that bad an idea, honest.

And recently, people have been grudgingly admitting that basic skills of airline pilots are deteriorating because of automation. Developing some basic flying skills before you join an airline is a really good idea.

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BTyyj

Post subject: Re: "Street to Right Seat"/MPL/Ab initio Flight Training

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:56 am

Rank 6

Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:11 pm
Posts: 480
Location: CYYJ

Colonel Sanders wrote:

Quote:

North American airlines want flying experience for their new hires

++1

There have been some examples of an experienced pilot performing worse, where they didn't used CRM and ignored their F/O, and as a result they crashed. But I completely agree with the main point here.

I use to be interested in direct entry type stuff as well, either with Cathay or with Jazz. After doing some research however, I now know that those routes aren't the best for developing a pilot and improving a pilot's skills to the best of their abilities. It may seem like "oh wow, I could be flying a 777 in two years", but what I have learned so far in life is that something worthwhile won't come easy. Cathay might sound great, but there are some major downsides to working there, and I would suggest you research it a bit further.

There are a few articles on PPRUNE about Cathay regarding why you should not work for them. Some examples are: four years as a second Relief Pilot, short layovers, living overseas etc.(sorry, it's been a while since I read the article). I would suggest you research a bit further about Cathay, because it isn't as amazing as it seems.

If you are still interested in Cathay however, your best bet might be to train and build hours here before going over to Cathay. There are many Canadians flying for CPA.

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Colonel Sanders

Post subject: Re: "Street to Right Seat"/MPL/Ab initio Flight Training

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:22 am

Rank 11

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:17 am
Posts: 3973
Location: Over Macho Grande

I know to the young people, jumping into the right seat of a boeing or airbus right out of flight school would be a dream come true.

But I remember hearing once that the worst nightmare a person can have, is for their dreams come true.

Do some jumper dumping. Or some banner towing. Go the float route and master the Beaver. Fly a Navajo. Or a Caravan. Then into a PC12 or King Air. Maybe a 1900, a dash-8, an ATR. Maybe fly some corporate jets. And don't spend your whole life in the right seat, whining about how it only counts half towards your ATPL. Spend at least a couple thousand hours in the left seat. The view is a whole lot different from there.

At this point you've got 5,000 hours or thereabouts, and you've earned the right to climb into a Boeing or Airbus. You've got a whole bag of tricks that you've learned along the way, to dip into when things don't go exactly as planned.

I know people will disagree with me, but you are cheating yourself and your future passengers by short-cutting the process of gaining knowledge, skills and experience.

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moocow

Post subject: Re: "Street to Right Seat"/MPL/Ab initio Flight Training

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:05 am

Rank 7

Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:36 am
Posts: 617

When I did my research for CX cadet (before the iCadet thing), I found out that you will be issued a frozen ATPL with a P2X rating which is not an ICAO rating. So basically, all the SO years you spend in CX is worthless and probably can't be credited toward a full ATPL in Canada. I talked to a former WestJet HR employee and basically told, no PIC, no thank you. If you work for CX and want to live in Canada, you have to pay to get to work and don't expect discount fare since North American routes are jammed out the ass. So you have to pay out of your pocket full fare to get to work and may be get taxed by HK for days you were there for work. If you quit before getting to senior FO, no airline will look at you since most of your hours are worthless by their eyes and may be even TC. As for bases, rumor is that CX may be axing most of them. Even if they are not, they are seniority based and there are North American pilots waiting to come home.

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